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1 km wifi

  1. #1
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    Default 1 km wifi

    hi guys i was looking to establish a point-to-point wifi bridge over a distance of 0.8 kms, with los a slight issue, i've shortlisted engenius 2610,OSBRiDGE 2Si, ubnt ns2.
    apprx badwith requirement is 10mbps
    anykind of knowledge sharing will be appreicated

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    Last edited by essbebe; 24th February 2009 at 10:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by delhite2 View Post
    hi guys i was looking to establish a point-to-point wifi bridge over a distance of 0.8 kms, with los a slight issue, i've shortlisted engenius 2610,OSBRiDGE 2Si, ubnt ns2.
    apprx badwith requirement is 10mbps
    anykind of knowledge sharing will be appreicated
    Nano station 2 by Ubnt is the best out of the lot you have mentioned.

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    What are the costs like for this one? I'm shifting to a new house, to myself. My family is like 300mtrs away from me. I was considering this, but I thought it'd probably cost me in lacs :S

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    Its not in lacks its just a few grands. find out who is the nearest distributor and go and get one for yourself. Check out ubnt.com they have got 4-5 distributors in India.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Admin View Post
    Its not in lacks its just a few grands. find out who is the nearest distributor and go and get one for yourself. Check out ubnt.com they have got 4-5 distributors in India.
    Try looking for solutions involving Copper and (A)DSL modem. it wont be as costly as a wireless solution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kpschauhan View Post
    Try looking for solutions involving Copper and (A)DSL modem. it wont be as costly as a wireless solution.
    Please do not misguide others.

    Almost one kilometre cable? think about the initial cost.. and then the maintanance and you would get slower speeds with a cable but thats another issue.

    All in all go for Ubiquiti networks NS2 and you wont regret it. I have seen 25kilometre + links with two obstructions working perfectly fine with NS2 where as the other names you mentioned in your first post suck big time when it comes to link stability. You would also get better throughput with NS2 as compared to other.

    Get it from one of the distributors... I just checked their site and they have got 4 distributors in Delhi.

    If you encounter any issues give me a shout as I have just finished comparing almost all the brands available in the market at different distances and GOD was it difficult... OOOooooHhHhH YESSS its a pain going back and forth to distant sites especially in Delhi.

    Have you gone through this thread : http://www.indiabroadband.net/wirele...etworking.html
    Ubiquiti was the last one we tried with both clear LOS and with one, two and three major obstructions at different distances... well I tell you I still cant believe myself why I didnt include Ubiquiti's products in the initial list we made... Its only after we for unsatisfactory results from most of the products we tested that I started looking for more and Ubiquiti as you may already know doesnt have much presense in India... thats the reason why I didint think of it initially.

    I will post the results of all the different products tested in the thread in a few days once we are done with it completely.

    Dont forget to follow this thread : http://www.indiabroadband.net/wirele...etworking.html

    Just so you dont get mugged... out of all we tested Ubiquiti stand out as the clear winner.

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    Smile

    i would like to know what you used with NS2 to do the Non line of site link with 2 obstructions at 25KM + distance. and for your information NS 2 is in ISM band so the technology supports 54mbps under test condtions but can not give a thruput of 10Mbps at 1KM

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    you can do this with a belkin n+ effectively

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    Quote Originally Posted by kpschauhan View Post
    Try looking for solutions involving Copper and (A)DSL modem. it wont be as costly as a wireless solution.
    lol... dont misguide pls...
    job takes the child away.

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    now some joke:- make a very very very big wifi extender at least 1KM wide and 1KM long.

    serious:- go for Ubiquiti networks NS2 as admin said
    "LIFE IS LIKE AN ICE-CREAM SO ENJOY IT AS MUCH AS U CAN"

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    Quote Originally Posted by imrock View Post
    now some joke:- make a very very very big wifi extender at least 1KM wide and 1KM long.

    serious:- go for Ubiquiti networks NS2 as admin said
    and why not installing our own satellite @space
    job takes the child away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mickey View Post
    and why not installing our own satellite @space
    yeah thats a good idea too!
    :lol:
    "LIFE IS LIKE AN ICE-CREAM SO ENJOY IT AS MUCH AS U CAN"

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    Thumbs up regarding WIFI

    Hi,

    Please sugest me what hardware i need to convert 15km area into wifi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by geonet View Post
    Hi,

    Please sugest me what hardware i need to convert 15km area into wifi.
    Welcome to INDIA BROADBAND FORUM!

    i don't think there is any 15KM Wifi!(correct me if i am wrong)

    buy a portable wireless device like Reliance net connect............
    u can carry them wherever u want.

    GOOD LUCK!:thumbup1:
    "LIFE IS LIKE AN ICE-CREAM SO ENJOY IT AS MUCH AS U CAN"

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    Quote Originally Posted by imrock View Post
    Welcome to INDIA BROADBAND FORUM!

    i don't think there is any 15KM Wifi!(correct me if i am wrong)

    buy a portable wireless device like Reliance net connect............
    u can carry them wherever u want.

    GOOD LUCK!:thumbup1:
    You are wrong. then how come we can access net using wi-fi in almost all MBA colleges?

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    but why does he need to make a 15 km wifi considering the threats the nations sees nowadays..
    job takes the child away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mickey View Post
    but why does he need to make a 15 km wifi considering the threats the nations sees nowadays..
    so did you meant that we should ban all WiFi networks, instead of making it secure.
    ___________________________________

    Cheers...!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by deepmohan View Post
    so did you meant that we should ban all WiFi networks, instead of making it secure.
    Thats what i want to say too Deep..
    till the time its not secure... why cause such problems.. ??? you accept that wifi is non-secure till date.. so lets bring it out of box till it gets the security level.. its the most important tool for the terror guys nowadays,,...
    job takes the child away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by talktoanil View Post
    You are wrong. then how come we can access net using wi-fi in almost all MBA colleges?
    thank you for correcting me......but i still don't believe in 15KM wifi.


    Quote Originally Posted by mickey View Post
    Thats what i want to say too Deep..
    till the time its not secure... why cause such problems.. ??? you accept that wifi is non-secure till date.. so lets bring it out of box till it gets the security level.. its the most important tool for the terror guys nowadays,,...
    yes wifi is not as secure as lan........
    we need more security with a good firewall to make wifi secure.using lan is comfortable.
    "LIFE IS LIKE AN ICE-CREAM SO ENJOY IT AS MUCH AS U CAN"

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    Quote Originally Posted by imrock View Post
    but i still don't believe in 15KM wifi.
    its possible but its will be too expensive and not reasonable too.
    ___________________________________

    Cheers...!

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by deepmohan View Post
    its possible but its will be too expensive and not reasonable too.
    is it like router after router dilip?? or some expensive devices for this?
    job takes the child away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mickey View Post
    is it like router after router dilip??
    mickey ji i am deep not dilip....

    Quote Originally Posted by mickey View Post
    is it like router after router or some expensive devices for this?
    wireless access point (WAP) and wireless antenna will be needed
    ___________________________________

    Cheers...!

  24. #24
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    [QUOTE=deepmohan;245729]mickey ji i am deep not dilip....




    oh sorry.... both Dilip and Deep are quite informative so i got confused...

    by the way bro, how much is the cost of this antenna in running market...
    job takes the child away.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by geonet View Post
    Hi,

    Please sugest me what hardware i need to convert 15km area into wifi.
    This can be achieved it depends on the CPE device which have the receiving sensitivity more then 38 dbi in power and 1 watt power which flat panel antenna focusing to distribution node but this can be visible from the CPE installation site. you can revive up to 18 Kms LOS line of sight

    but that CPE cost around 15000 and in India no one spend 15000 as security deposit to get that connection in which a customer have to pay 15000 as security deposit....

    Nothing is impossible only investment is required.

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    Smile sure you can get upto 50kms WiFi

    Quote Originally Posted by geonet View Post
    Hi,

    Please sugest me what hardware i need to convert 15km area into wifi.
    surely you can get upto 50kms WiFi with the current products avaliable.

    i myself being a system integrator have successfully achieved 50kms [LOS] WiFi at 10Mbps.

    and mind you not expensive either...

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    @delhite2
    YOur WIFI router is a TRANSMitter and Receiver combined !

    Any Wireless transmission in any wireless spectrum, radiating
    more than 100mW power and using External Antenna/s
    is ILLEGAL and individuals/company's etc MUST obtain
    LICENCE from Wireless Planning & Co ordination Wing of the D.O.T.

    When your signal interferes with Aircraft/Marine/Police/Defence /cellphone/ etc
    frequencies, special Mobile equipment is used to track the offending system, and
    punishment is severe including fine and imprisonment !

    Even Cordless Phones ( high power ) with a claimed higher range say 1 to 3 Km
    or more are also not allowed.
    ( A Chinese make unit working in the VHF freq band
    some three or four years back was tracked, and users severely
    warned . Luckily with the use of cellphone/s this usage has vanished. )

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by essbebe View Post
    @delhite2
    YOur WIFI router is a TRANSMitter and Receiver combined !

    Any Wireless transmission in any wireless spectrum, radiating
    more than 100mW power and using External Antenna/s
    is ILLEGAL and individuals/company's etc MUST obtain
    LICENCE from Wireless Planning & Co ordination Wing of the D.O.T.

    When your signal interferes with Aircraft/Marine/Police/Defence /cellphone/ etc
    frequencies, special Mobile equipment is used to track the offending system, and
    punishment is severe including fine and imprisonment !

    Even Cordless Phones ( high power ) with a claimed higher range say 1 to 3 Km
    or more are also not allowed.
    ( A Chinese make unit working in the VHF freq band
    some three or four years back was tracked, and users severely
    warned . Luckily with the use of cellphone/s this usage has vanished. )
    ................Incorrect information..............

    In wifi ISM band its not interfering any other spectrum all "Aircraft/Marine/Police/Defence /cellphone/" uses microwave frequency not standard RF ISM band.

    In ISM band up to 1 Watt power can be used without any problem in India as what you have mention 100mW.

    Who told that External Antennas are illegal its not illegal up to 35 dbi antenna can be used in India without any problem.

    High of the Antenna can be installed up to 10 feet from your terrace above 10 feet need a local authorities permission. even this also due to aircraft sometimes they flight at low high if your building high is around 50 feet e.g 5 floors then you can setup antenna up-to 10 feet more from your current terrace.

    High end equipment comes with spectrum analyzer you can select the channel width as per surrounding conditions and frequency of your equipment.

    Mobile towers uses up to 25 MHz to 48 Mhz depends on techonology uses like CDMA or GSM GSM have low channel width and CDMA network have more channel width.

    In india govt is just like bullish even professional working in their wireless wing blady they don't know about the proper use of the spectrum just they take constancy service from outsource and allot the spectrum to service providers.

    No one can object the ISM band as it is the only band available in the world for public safety is never generate any radio activity like other micro waves generates.

    interferance is caused by the frequency's differences if there is very less difference between they operating frequency then they interfere each other.

    So minimum of 150MHz to 350MHz deference is required in the operating frequencies in a given area if more then one frequency is operating and channel width can be any range from 10MHz to 35Mhz they never interfere each other its an challenge

    if have any issue just let me know.

    Birender

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    In ISM band up to 1 Watt power can be used without any problem in India as what you have mention 100mW.
    I did not mention ISM band. Industrial Scientific and Medical unlicensed usages, in the Radio spectrum is allowed with LIMITED power output only. ( mostly for indoor use) . Freq Allocation for different Regions 1,2 ,& 3 different.

    Each country makes it own use of the Radio spectrum ( now in news in india !).
    and restrictions are placed on the spectrum usage.

    I am glad to note that you could make a wifi Broadband Link with the above 1W Output limitation for a distance of 45 KM!.( probably in 2 GHz band )

    Even for putting up a multi storey building height above 100 feet from Ground level/, needs clearance from Lccal committee comprising various wireless users and WPC) as it will block LOS of wireless spectrum Users in a particular area ( Near Airports/ Met dept/Defence/IATA) etc )


    The point that was made, was that Range/power of WIFI routers is limited , and trying for 1KM to 45KM radius broadband usage with a single BB connection, is beyond the scope of this forum.

    More information can be obtained at The Wireless Planning and Co-ordination Wing web site.

    Para two:
    In wifi ISM band its not interfering any other spectrum all "Aircraft/Marine/Police/Defence /cellphone/" uses microwave frequency not standard RF ISM band.
    When you travel by Air, you are requested to switch off Cellphones/Laptop
    during landing and take off. Probably the pilots/ do not know above info !)

    Casual Google search: Extract:
    "Extreme" Wi-Fi Router: A Quarter-Mile of Coverage : Ben Patterson : Yahoo! Tech
    Extreme" Wi-Fi Router: A Quarter-Mile of Coverage
    Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:55PM EST

    Need to blanket your house—along with a few surrounding city blocks—with Wi-Fi coverage? The Extreme Range Wi-Fi Router is here.
    Gizmodo has the goods on this $284 monster of a wireless router, which promises to blast out your Wi-Fi signal up to a quarter-mile in every direction.
    According to its specs, the Extreme Range router packs in 30 dBm of power, the maximum allowed by the FCC (standard Wi-Fi routers only manage about 20 dBm, while FM radio stations average about 80 dBm).
    The router supports the usual 802.11b/g wireless standards, along with WEP, WPA2, and WPA-Enterprise encryption. ...................................
    Last edited by essbebe; 23rd October 2009 at 07:55 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by essbebe View Post
    I did not mention ISM band. Industrial Scientific and Medical unlicensed usages, in the Radio spectrum is allowed with LIMITED power output only. ( mostly for indoor use) . Freq Allocation for different Regions 1,2 ,& 3 different.

    Each country makes it own use of the Radio spectrum ( now in news in india !).
    and restrictions are placed on the spectrum usage.

    I am glad to note that you could make a wifi Broadband Link with the above 1W Output limitation for a distance of 45 KM!.( probably in 2 GHz band )

    Even for putting up a multi storey building height above 100 feet from Ground level/, needs clearance from Lccal committee comprising various wireless users and WPC) as it will block LOS of wireless spectrum Users in a particular area ( Near Airports/ Met dept/Defence/IATA) etc )


    The point that was made, was that Range/power of WIFI routers is limited , and trying for 1KM to 45KM radius broadband usage with a single BB connection, is beyond the scope of this forum.

    More information can be obtained at The Wireless Planning and Co-ordination Wing web site.

    Para two:
    When you travel by Air, you are requested to switch off Cellphones/Laptop
    during landing and take off. Probably the pilots/ do not know above info !)

    Casual Google search: Extract:
    "Extreme" Wi-Fi Router: A Quarter-Mile of Coverage : Ben Patterson : Yahoo! Tech
    More information can be obtained at The Wireless Planning and Co-ordination Wing web site.

    Information given on this website is not updated from past three years you are in the history of India check the latest info on wireless planing.....

    When you travel by Air, you are requested to switch off Cellphones/Laptop
    during landing and take off. Probably the pilots/ do not know above info !)

    All bullish government policies as you know In US flights there is not need to switch off any wifi devices only cell phones are required to switch off because of the microwaves as microwaves are very powerful and it contains very high energy which can disturb airline internal communication systems. only GSM and CDMA cause system failures in radar and airlines communications not Wifi go school and read it do your engineering again.............

  31. #31
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    You are barking up the wrong tree !
    In A Technical discussion in a general forum,
    you answer point by point and don't get personal;.
    Wifi go school and read it do your engineering again.
    2. In Which college you studied that RADAR is Microwave ?.
    You are not even aware how frequency spectrum is classified.
    Radar Frequency Bands

    Attachment 6328



    Mention the University/college in India
    ( I cannot afford your "U.S")
    where I can join to update my knowledge about
    this particular WIFI Broadband usage for 18 Km !
    G013. What is meant by ISM applications and how are the related frequencies used?

    The term "unregulated frequencies" is not used within ITU texts. What is often meant by the term "unregulated frequencies" is the frequency bands for industrial, scientific and medical (ISM) applications. The international Table of Frequency Allocations, which is contained in Article 5 of the Radio Regulations (Volume 1), specifies some frequency bands that may be made available for ISM applications (see RR Nos. 5.138 and 5.150 reproduced below):



    *

    5.138 The following bands: 6765-6795 kHz (centre frequency 6780 kHz), 433.05-434.79 MHz (centre frequency 433.92 MHz) in Region 1 except in the countries mentioned in RR No. 5.280, 61-61.5 GHz (centre frequency 61.25 GHz), 122-123 GHz (centre frequency 122.5 GHz), and 244-246 GHz (centre frequency 245 GHz) are designated for industrial, scientific and medical (ISM) applications. The use of these frequency bands for ISM applications shall be subject to special authorization by the administration concerned, in agreement with other administrations whose radiocommunication services might be affected. In applying this provision, administrations shall have due regard to the latest relevant ITU-R Recommendations.
    *

    5.150 The following bands: 13553-13567 kHz (centre frequency 13560 kHz), 26957-27283 kHz (centre frequency 27120 kHz), 40.66-40.70 MHz (centre frequency 40.68 MHz), 902-928 MHz in Region 2 (centre frequency 915 MHz), 2400-2500 MHz (centre frequency 2450 MHz), 5725-5875 MHz (centre frequency 5800 MHz), and 24-24.25 GHz (centre frequency 24.125 GHz) are also designated for industrial, scientific and medical (ISM) applications. Radiocommunication services operating within these bands must accept harmful interference, which may be caused by these applications. ISM equipment operating in these bands is subject to the provisions of RR No. 15.13. top
    You should give the technical set up of your 18 Km range wifi set up!
    1.WIFI router used :
    2.Power output
    3.Type of Antenna Used.
    4. The ISP
    5. Country where set up Region 1 Region 2 Region 3
    6.Claimed Range 18 Km.
    7. Total investment in Dollars /INR..



    May be a clean "LOS" in the Sahara Desert !
    Specify the freq range of the "Microwave Band"
    and whether it is included in
    above Extract from ITU.

    What WPC has NOT posted in their web site, and you feel it is all "bullshit"
    take it up with the authorities
    and the Indian Commercial Pilots Association, and educate them !

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by essbebe View Post
    You are barking up the wrong tree !
    In A Technical discussion in a general forum,
    you answer point by point and don't get personal;.


    2. In Which college you studied that RADAR is Microwave ?.
    You are not even aware how frequency spectrum is classified.
    Radar Frequency Bands

    Attachment 6328



    Mention the University/college in India
    ( I cannot afford your "U.S")
    where I can join to update my knowledge about
    this particular WIFI Broadband usage for 18 Km !


    You should give the technical set up of your 18 Km range wifi set up!
    1.WIFI router used :
    2.Power output
    3.Type of Antenna Used.
    4. The ISP
    5. Country where set up Region 1 Region 2 Region 3
    6.Claimed Range 18 Km.
    7. Total investment in Dollars /INR..



    May be a clean "LOS" in the Sahara Desert !
    Specify the freq range of the "Microwave Band"
    and whether it is included in
    above Extract from ITU.

    What WPC has NOT posted in their web site, and you feel it is all "bullshit"
    take it up with the authorities
    and the Indian Commercial Pilots Association, and educate them !
    here are the details of the setup

    You should give the technical set up of your 18 Km range wifi set up!

    1.WIFI router used : Matrox MultiBand Radio 250MHz to 85GHz
    2.Power output : 1Watt to 25Watts (adjustable)
    3.Type of Antenna Used. Mix Sector panel, Omani and Dish reflectors
    4. The ISP: JSR Germany
    5. Country where set up Germany
    6.Claimed Range 18 Km. 75 KMs
    <Tower> 150 meters
    7. Total investment in Dollars /INR.. 9500 Euros approx

    *************************

  33. #33
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    here are the details of the setup

    You should give the technical set up of your 18 Km range wifi set up!

    1.WIFI router used : Matrox MultiBand Radio 250MHz to 85GHz
    2.Power output : 1Watt to 25Watts (adjustable)
    3.Type of Antenna Used. Mix Sector panel, Omani and Dish reflectors
    4. The ISP: JSR Germany
    5. Country where set up Germany
    6.Claimed Range 18 Km. 75 KMs
    <Tower> 150 meters
    7. Total investment in Dollars /INR.. 9500 Euros approx
    1.WIFI router used : Matrox MultiBand Radio 250MHz to 85GHz
    Tried search engines Google/Yahoo for details of this "wifiRouter"
    in the 250 MHz to 85 GHz range .
    No details available.
    Good Information that a Broadband Wifi is available in this wide Range
    but called a "MultiBand Radio".
    Cost of the set up Euro 9500 x Rs 80 approx = Rs 76000/=
    UPDATE: 27th Oct 1219Pm
    correct your maths its 760000/- not 76000/-

    ..................................
    Great Blunder. Arithmetic error pointed above.
    sorry for the mistake. Correct as Rs 7,60,000


    a very cheap investment!
    ( may include the Steel tower cost also for 150 meters height )

    Best of Luck to users who want to select this set up !
    I quit!
    Last edited by essbebe; 27th October 2009 at 11:57 AM.

  34. #34
    birender
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    Quote Originally Posted by essbebe View Post
    Tried search engines Google/Yahoo for details of this "wifiRouter"
    in the 250 MHz to 85 GHz range .
    No details available.
    Good Information that a Broadband Wifi is available in this wide Range
    but called a "MultiBand Radio".
    Cost of the set up Euro 9500 x Rs 80 approx = Rs 76000/=
    a very cheap investment!
    ( may include the Steel tower cost also for 150 meters height )

    Best of Luck to users who want to select this set up !
    I quit!
    correct your maths its 760000/- not 76000/-

    ..................................

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    EIRP in India allowed is upt 4W.

    a 200mW radio with 24dBi antenna is enough for 5 kms link and within the rules of WPC and Govt.

  36. #36
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    200mW Transmitter output
    please check the EIRP for 13 dBi and 24 dBi
    antenna gain !
    .please check EIRP 4W and 50 watts !
    Pure ERP And EIRP Calculator
    Cost of antenna : 129 euros . some one calculate in Rupees please.
    my arithmetic knowledge is suspect !
    Attachment 6433

  37. #37

  38. #38
    birender
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    forget about every thing make a mesh networking with WDS enabled routers and enjoy the smooth connectivity were ever you required. to cover 1 Kms area you need 10 WDS devices which cost around 3800 each 38000 investment INR.

    or max 50000/- INR

    equipments contact ........

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    Quote Originally Posted by birender View Post
    ................Incorrect information..............

    In wifi ISM band its not interfering any other spectrum all "Aircraft/Marine/Police/Defence /cellphone/" uses microwave frequency not standard RF ISM band.

    In ISM band up to 1 Watt power can be used without any problem in India as what you have mention 100mW.

    Who told that External Antennas are illegal its not illegal up to 35 dbi antenna can be used in India without any problem.

    High of the Antenna can be installed up to 10 feet from your terrace above 10 feet need a local authorities permission. even this also due to aircraft sometimes they flight at low high if your building high is around 50 feet e.g 5 floors then you can setup antenna up-to 10 feet more from your current terrace.

    High end equipment comes with spectrum analyzer you can select the channel width as per surrounding conditions and frequency of your equipment.

    Mobile towers uses up to 25 MHz to 48 Mhz depends on techonology uses like CDMA or GSM GSM have low channel width and CDMA network have more channel width.

    In india govt is just like bullish even professional working in their wireless wing blady they don't know about the proper use of the spectrum just they take constancy service from outsource and allot the spectrum to service providers.

    No one can object the ISM band as it is the only band available in the world for public safety is never generate any radio activity like other micro waves generates.

    interferance is caused by the frequency's differences if there is very less difference between they operating frequency then they interfere each other.

    So minimum of 150MHz to 350MHz deference is required in the operating frequencies in a given area if more then one frequency is operating and channel width can be any range from 10MHz to 35Mhz they never interfere each other its an challenge

    if have any issue just let me know.

    Birender




    Birender i m starting a wireless ISP in mumbai point to multipoint and i want to install my base station on a 40 feet tower the top of a 7 storey building. will i require any NOC from a local municipal corporation and do they charge.i want to plant 3 rocket M2 with 120 degress sectorial antennas.

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