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  1. #1
    Guardian Angel just4kix's Avatar
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    Default National Language

    Is learning the national language important?
    Last edited by just4kix; 16th June 2009 at 06:19 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by just4kix View Post
    Is learning the national language important?
    I already know a National Language ;-) (and it is not Hindi)

    -F
    Last edited by just4kix; 16th June 2009 at 06:21 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by farce View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by just4kix View Post
    Is learning the national language important?
    I already know a National Language ;-) (and it is not Hindi)

    -F
    Aw! Touched some raw nerves, didn't I? Why are SI's so sensitive against Hindi? As an Indian, one should be proud to learn Hindi which is our national language.
    Last edited by just4kix; 16th June 2009 at 06:21 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by just4kix View Post
    Aw! Touched some raw nerves, didn't I? Why are SI's so sensitive against Hindi? As an Indian, one should be proud to learn Hindi which is our national language.


    This is why ;-)

    -F


    National language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    From the above link...
    Republic of India
    Main articles: Languages of India and Official languages of India
    Neither the Constitution of India nor Indian law specifies a National language. Article 343 of the constitution specifies that the official language of the Union shall be Hindi in Devanagari script. Article 354 specifies that the legislature of a State may by law adopt any one or more of the languages in use in the State or Hindi as the Language or Languages to be used for all or any of the official purposes of that State.[7] Section 8 of The Official Languages Act of 1963 (as amended in 1967) empowers the Union Government to make rules regarding the languages which may be used for the official purposes of the Union, for transaction of business in Parliament, and for communication between the Union Government and the states.[8] Section 3 of G.S.R. 1053, titled "Rules, 1976 (As Amended, 1987)" specifies that communications from a Central (Union) Government office to a State or a Union Territory in shall, save in exceptional cases (Region "A") or shall ordinarily (Region "B"), be in Hindi, and if any communication is issued to any of them in English it shall be accompanied by a Hindi translation thereof. Section 3 of G.S.R. 1053, titled "Rules, 1976 states Communications from a Central Government office to State or Union Territory in Region "C" or to any office (not being a Central Government office) or person in such State shall be in English. Region C covers Tamil Nadu, Kerala , Karnataka and Andhra Pradesh [9]

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    Guardian Angel just4kix's Avatar
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    Well, I don't want to start a fight. But I feel that it is closed minded view.
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    Fair enough, I disagree with your view but I respect it and your right to it.

    thanks
    -F

  7. #7
    Guardian Angel just4kix's Avatar
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    Not at all. All I saying that be open about it. What is the harm in learning a language that 70~80% of India speaks?
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    fftopic:>>>>>>>>goes to yard
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    Platinum Member panchabhut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by just4kix View Post
    As an Indian, one should be proud to learn Hindi which is our national language.
    Quote Originally Posted by just4kix View Post
    What is the harm in learning a language that 70~80% of India speaks?
    India does not have a National Language.
    The government of India has given 22 "languages of the 8th Schedule" the status of official language.
    And Hindi is one of them.
    Hindi (or a variant) is language of ten Indian States. Haryana, Rajasthan, Uttar Pradesh, Uttarakhand, Bihar, Jharkhand, Madhya Pradesh, Chattisgarh, Himachal Pradesh and Delhi. Which implies there are at least as many Indian States where Hindi is not the main language.
    Nothing to fight about, but its definitely not the main language of a large part of the Indian population.
    As per the 2001 Census, there were 42 Cr. Hindi speaking Indians, followed by 18 Cr. speaking Bengali, 7.5 Cr. speaking Telegu, 7 Cr. speaking Marathi, 6 Cr. speaking Tamil, 5 Cr. speaking Gujrati, 5 Cr. speaking Urdu, 3 Cr. speaking Punjabi, 3 Cr. speaking Oriya and so on.
    Which makes the non-Hindi speaking Indians a far greater majority than the Hindi speaking ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by farce View Post
    Region C covers Tamil Nadu, Kerala , Karnataka and Andhra Pradesh
    "Region A" means the States of Bihar, Jharkhand, Haryana, Himachal Pradesh, Madhya Pradesh, Chattisgarh, Rajasthan, Uttar Pradesh, Uttarakhand and the Union Territories of Delhi and Andaman and Nicobar Islands;
    "Region B" means the States of Gujarat, Maharashtra and Punjab and the Union Territory of Chandigarh ;
    "Region C" means the States and the Union Territories other than those referred to in Region A & B

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    Guardian Angel just4kix's Avatar
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    Guys,

    There is no need to fight here.

    But I disagree with the assessment made by Wikipedia. Let me give example of Maharashtra (because I am from this state), Gujarat (because I lived there for quite a while) and MP/AP (because what I am saying has some bearing on these states).

    It was Nehru's decision to form states based on language. So Andhra Pradesh was the first state carved out on this idea (circa 1960). This was quickly followed by Maharashtra and Gujarat.

    Before this happened, the Vidarbha region was part of a greater state known as Central Provinces. Some northern states of MH were part of a state known as Berar. The Marathwada region of MH was part of the Nizam state. And Western Maharashtra from Mumbai and Northward till almost Ahemedabad was known as state of Bombay. The rest of Gujarat was in two states known as Kathiawad and Kutch.

    When the states were formed, the demarcation was made as it exists.

    But know that 80% of Maharashtra (CP, Berar, Nizam) spoke two languages - Marathi and Marathi influenced Hindi. In fact Marathi spoken by these disctricts in MH is heavily influenced by Hindi. The state of Maharashtra has no antagonism to Hindi. In fact more than 80% of MH speaks Hindi, though not perfect.

    Same holds trues for Gujarat too.

    As far as AP is concerned, the entire region of the former Nizam state is conversant in Hindi.

    I have never found any anti Hindi bias in any state of India other than Tamil Nadu and to small extent in Kerala and South Karnataka.

    So to sum up, it is wrong to state that there is a majority of non-Hindi speaking people in India. If you consider Hindi as mother tongue, then yes, the fact that non-Hindi speakers are more, is true. But stats are misleading as always. The true fact is that 75% or more of India speaks and understands Hindi.

    What is puzzling to me is that educated people in TN come out in anti-Hindi protests. They say that this is destroying their language, culture, etc. It is an invasion by North on South. Why is such a feeling? The same people have no such qualms against English! What is the harm in learning a new language, a language that is understood and spoken in 75% of India?

    Some years ago (around early 90s), I had visited Chennai (Madras as it then was). I had trouble communicating. People used to shut off their TVs during the DD's National Program (it was those days when cable was yet to arrive). Yet, when I went to see a (Hindi) movie, the hall was house-full (and I can bet that 70% were people who never spoke Hindi).

    So why this xenophobia people?
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  11. #11
    rupu1983
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    I think we should learn hindi at least just for communication
    Even in 2005-06 i have faced big problem of language in Erode,Coimbatore Nagercoil,Tirunelveli (TamilNadu).Once i was thinking how can i communicate with those person.:52:
    but kix did you ever feel that now in hindi also so many urdu word is present.Common people is using lot of urdu word in last few decade in hindi.So hindi become the mixed language of Sanskrit & hindi.
    Like most of the people says "Intezar" not "pratiksha" or "ummed" not "Asha"

    request
    I think this is good debate so thread can get a place in general off topic section

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    Guardian Angel just4kix's Avatar
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    Urdu is a language born in India and derived from Parsi, Hindi and Arabic. And yes, Urdu has a strong influence on Hindi. Such things cannot be helped.

    Every language gets influenced by some other language.

    I could move the thread to off-topic but I do not want this to become a war.

    But when it is quoted "National Language = Hindi", there are widespread protests. The constitution, official documents just say "Hindi is one of the official languages" to avoid political controversy. But that does not hide the fact that Hindi is indeed the language the nation speaks.

    BTW, I have nothing against any language and I am a non-Hindi speaker.

    I could move the thread to off-topic but I do not want this to become a war.

    But when it is quoted "National Language = Hindi", there are widespread protests. The constitution, official documents just say "Hindi is one of the official languages" to avoid political controversy. But that does not hide the fact that Hindi is indeed the language the nation speaks.

    BTW, I have nothing against any language and I am a non-Hindi speaker.
    Last edited by just4kix; 2nd May 2009 at 01:25 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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    Quote Originally Posted by just4kix View Post
    What is puzzling to me is that educated people in TN come out in anti-Hindi protests. They say that this is destroying their language, culture, etc. It is an invasion by North on South. Why is such a feeling? The same people have no such qualms against English! What is the harm in learning a new language, a language that is understood and spoken in 75% of India?
    So why this xenophobia people?
    Even I don't understand why people of TN have that mentality...
    I've never been there... But my friends who had been there.. told me that local people there don't respond if you say something in hindi... even if they know hindi!

    I won't say more on this topic... As I had already said enough on another similar thread...

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    Platinum Member panchabhut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by just4kix View Post
    So why this xenophobia people?
    The "xenophobia" is the reaction of 50 years of "Official" efforts to impose Hindi on everybody in India. Whether they understand it or not. (As evident from the Official Language Act).
    The frenzie has now come to such an extent that many in the Hindi belt refuse to accept any other language, including English. (Please have a look at the SP manifesto for better understanding - a thread is also active on this issue). Recently I was on the Interview Board for recruitment of Accounts Clerks for my office and several candidates from the Hindi Belt actually asked me to translate my technical terms in Hindi when all that were asked was basic Accounting Terms like Journal, Ledger and Trial Balance.

    Theres nothing wrong with accepting hindi as one of the means of communication. But it is this mentality of the Hindi belt to isolate themselves in their hindi-only capsule and then expect the whole country to also follow that results in the backlash from the non-hindi speaking belts.

  15. #15
    Guardian Angel just4kix's Avatar
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    Well said, pachabhut.

    Hindi speaking people who behave this way are equally at fault.
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    Yeah... There are few Hindi enforcers/political parties who try to impose it on everyone... Thats wrong...

    But still I feel everyone should learn Hindi as its understood by many in India... Just for the sake of normal communication... Nothing official about it!

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    Well, that's your opinion that everyone should learn Hindi.
    In the same vein it is MY opinion that everyone does not
    need to learn Hindi.

    Let's live with that.

    -F

    p.s and if you want to live/work in the south
    why don't you make an effort to learn a few phrases
    in the local language an/or speak in English?

    Just because You come to the South and find it
    difficult to communicate you want everyone here
    to learn your language???? ;-)

    Also I wouldn't categorize my feelings as xenophobia.
    I don't fear Hindi nor do I dislike Hindi. I watch
    Hindi movies, I have lots of Hindi friends, and
    I love Tandoori chicken. What I don't like is the
    attitude of some people who say "Thou shalt learn Hindi"

  18. #18
    ShAdOwCoN
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    Quote Originally Posted by itsmemad View Post
    Even I don't understand why people of TN have that mentality...
    I've never been there... But my friends who had been there.. told me that local people there don't respond if you say something in hindi... even if they know hindi!

    similar thread...
    That is not true ..... well being there i can say that most people in TN dont know Hindi ..... I can safely say that there are 10 times more ppl who speak English than those who speak Hindi ... ofcourse every body speaks Tamil+some south Indian language like Telugu,Malayalam etc

    There is very less chance that Ethnic Tamilians speak Hindi ... that may be the reason y ppl dont respond when u talk in Hindi


    Anti-Hindi movement was fully politically motivated and is not reflected by the average Tamilian's sentiments

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    Quote Originally Posted by farce View Post
    Well, that's your opinion that everyone should learn Hindi.
    In the same vein it is MY opinion that everyone does not
    need to learn Hindi.

    Let's live with that.
    Thats alright...

    Quote Originally Posted by ShAdOwCoN View Post
    That is not true ..... well being there i can say that most people in TN dont know Hindi ..... I can safely say that there are 10 times more ppl who speak English than those who speak Hindi ... ofcourse every body speaks Tamil+some south Indian language like Telugu,Malayalam etc

    There is very less chance that Ethnic Tamilians speak Hindi ... that may be the reason y ppl dont respond when u talk in Hindi


    Anti-Hindi movement was fully politically motivated and is not reflected by the average Tamilian's sentiments
    Thanks for responding shadow... Your effort has undoubtedly cleared some presumptions I had in my mind...

    Rep for you.
    Last edited by itsmemad; 8th May 2009 at 11:09 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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    Guardian Angel just4kix's Avatar
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    @farce,

    I am saying the same thing. People must try to learn the local language. I am definitely saying that when North Indians move South (or vice versa), they should not only try to learn the local language but learn to enjoy local customs, food, festivals, also. I will definitely frown on someone who says that they are unable to get good alu parathas in Villupuram or that tasty sambar is not available in Nabha.
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  21. #21
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    what J4K told is correct, we should adjust to the things surrounding us ,
    in my openion eveerbody should learn a common language & their local languages as it will benefit both themselves and visitors to their place. If by learning a common language you can help somebody in need means why not we do it....

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    Quote Originally Posted by itsmemad View Post
    Even I don't understand why people of TN have that mentality...
    I've never been there... But my friends who had been there.. told me that local people there don't respond if you say something in hindi... even if they know hindi!
    thats anything but not the truth !!!

    As a matter of fact , many local people ridicule people who talk in english, although the attitude is changing nowadays. people who talk in english are called as 'Peter'. If you watch some of the old movies you would know.

  23. #23
    ShAdOwCoN
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    in slang Tamil

    Peter = show off

    this is prevalent among high school/college students (and so in the movies) ....... but does not apply to our discussion as this is an isolated phenomena

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShAdOwCoN View Post
    in slang Tamil

    Peter = show off

    this is prevalent among high school/college students (and so in the movies) ....... but does not apply to our discussion as this is an isolated phenomena
    Is this a new slang??? I've never heard of this....

    -F

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    Quote Originally Posted by farce View Post
    Is this a new slang??? I've never heard of this....

    -F
    If u did study in tamil nadu u may have come accross it....

    it has been there for ages...

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    Quote Originally Posted by newprouser View Post
    If u did study in tamil nadu u may have come accross it....

    it has been there for ages...
    well, I am not sure I'd say I "studied" there,
    but I went to school and college in Chennai. ;-)

    -F

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    Quote Originally Posted by farce View Post
    Is this a new slang??? I've never heard of this....
    -F
    dude you really where roaming the universe weren't you

    Quote Originally Posted by farce View Post
    well, I am not sure I'd say I "studied" there,
    but I went to school and college in Chennai. ;-)

    -F
    That is the one of most used slang words especially in college. Ofcourse you had to goto college to hear that unk:

    I don't see any issues learning languages whatever it might be but don't it force it one me lest i vomit unk:
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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    Quote Originally Posted by farce View Post
    well, I am not sure I'd say I "studied" there,
    but I went to school and college in Chennai. ;-)

    -F
    well if AU guys say lik tat wat am I supposed to sey

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    Quote Originally Posted by vikramjb View Post
    dude you really where roaming the universe weren't you



    That is the one of most used slang words especially in college. Ofcourse you had to goto college to hear that unk:

    I don't see any issues learning languages whatever it might be but don't it force it one me lest i vomit unk:
    Maybe I am reading the pronunciation wrong. Is it like the
    name "Peter" as in Saint Peter?

    show off used to be alti or alatti or bandha right????
    -F

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    Quote Originally Posted by newprouser View Post
    well if AU guys say lik tat wat am I supposed to sey
    maybe I went to school long time back before they invented Peter ;-)

    -F

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    Quote Originally Posted by farce View Post
    maybe I went to school long time back before they invented Peter ;-)

    -F
    that reaction was for this statement "well, I am not sure I'd say I "studied" there, but I went to school and college in Chennai."

    :001_tongue:

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    Quote Originally Posted by newprouser View Post
    that reaction was for this statement "well, I am not sure I'd say I "studied" there, but I went to school and college in Chennai."

    :001_tongue:
    ooops, I misunderstood that AU was the slang capital of Chennai ;-)

    -F

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    newprouser
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    :48:

    :surrender:

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    Quote Originally Posted by newprouser View Post
    :48:

    :surrender:
    why? I was the one who made the mistake, not you

    -F

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    I'll try to keep this in mind in our future conversations - " Visitor from a parallel universe"

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    Quote Originally Posted by farce View Post
    maybe I went to school long time back before they invented Peter ;-)

    -F
    That should be a very long time then

    yes bandha would be the right work, and let's come back to the topic shall we unk:
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  37. #37
    ShAdOwCoN
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    Quote Originally Posted by farce View Post
    ooops, I misunderstood that AU was the slang capital of Chennai ;-)

    -F
    Tell me about that

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    Quote Originally Posted by just4kix View Post
    Is learning the national language important?
    The national language?
    It would help if you learn the official languages

    the 8th schedule defines many national languages.

    -----

    Never mind,
    If you were talking about learning Hindi.

    Well, you are not forced to learn it (really!) but it can help if you are someone who does not and has to work in 'North India'.

    ---

    I know the discussion has gone _way_ beyond the original question. I just thought I'd chime in!

  39. #39
    Guardian Angel just4kix's Avatar
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    Not forced. Voluntarily. By choice.
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by farce View Post
    maybe I went to school long time back before they invented Peter ;-)
    or may be they invented this word just to describe farce ;-)

  41. #41
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    India has a national language but it doesn't have a national religion......India is secular when it comes to religion but not when it comes to language......strange isnt it?:confused1:

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    Leaders of South didnt had problems speaking Hindi. They even felt proud speaking it. C.R Gopalachary Sarojni Naidu(Bengali Married to South Indian) Vyaijantimala and many many South Indian actors and actresses feel pride speaking hindi and working in hindi films. I think regional languages are quite powerful and wont get weakened by hindi as national languages. Its with time people lost their faith in One nation theory, and went into regionalism. Regionalism is the worst scenario of today. Not just in India. Its harassing billions worldwide. I think best would be people should respect one language Hindi as it is derived of Sanskrit and Perso-Arabic. The two common cultures of our country.
    job takes the child away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mail2sc View Post
    Leaders of South didnt had problems speaking Hindi. They even felt proud speaking it. C.R Gopalachary Sarojni Naidu(Bengali Married to South Indian) Vyaijantimala and many many South Indian actors and actresses feel pride speaking hindi and working in hindi films. I think regional languages are quite powerful and wont get weakened by hindi as national languages. Its with time people lost their faith in One nation theory, and went into regionalism. Regionalism is the worst scenario of today. Not just in India. Its harassing billions worldwide. I think best would be people should respect one language Hindi as it is derived of Sanskrit and Perso-Arabic. The two common cultures of our country.
    I have an idea, why don't we have English as our national language.
    that way it won't give any special advantage to Hindi speaking people.

    -F

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by farce View Post
    I have an idea, why don't we have English as our national language.
    that way it won't give any special advantage to Hindi speaking people.

    -F
    Ha you think anything
    why didnt we vote for farce to make him Prime minister.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swifty View Post
    Ha you think anything
    why didnt we vote for farce to make him Prime minister.
    farce, has a cute tendency to reciprocate. But i too think english should be made our national language because its equal for everyone. There is more discipline in english and people are attached to it more than hindi.
    job takes the child away.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swifty View Post
    Ha you think anything
    why didnt we vote for farce to make him Prime minister.
    In a country full of insane people, that could be one of the most sane thing to do.
    Earth, Wind, Fire, Water, Consciousness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swifty View Post
    Ha you think anything
    why didnt we vote for farce to make him Prime minister.
    man, you have raised my ambition.
    I was only thinking about becoming chief minister of Tamil Nadu ;-)

    -F

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    Quote Originally Posted by panchabhut View Post
    In a country full of insane people, that could be one of the most sane thing to do.
    he said that in humor man get up and canvass for our great leader farcey. He will bring stability to our Nation.
    job takes the child away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by panchabhut View Post
    In a country full of insane people, that could be one of the most sane thing to do.
    I would like Punch Bala to be my running mate.
    I can see you as finance minister.

    -F

  50. #50
    Jedi knight Luke Skywalker's Avatar
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    Well , we don't need a national language now. Our first aim should be to literate illiterates in India. A'ter that this discussion should come.

  51. #51
    Platinum Member strider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luke Skywalker View Post
    Well , we don't need a national language now. Our first aim should be to literate illiterates in India. A'ter that this discussion should come.
    good thought.
    Munni badnaam hui, darling tere liye
    Le zandu balm hui, darling tere liye

  52. #52
    Platinum Member mickey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luke Skywalker View Post
    Well , we don't need a national language now. Our first aim should be to literate illiterates in India. A'ter that this discussion should come.
    i think India is lucky that Hindi is the national language.
    job takes the child away.

  53. #53
    newprouser
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    Quote Originally Posted by farce View Post
    man, you have raised my ambition.
    I was only thinking about becoming chief minister of Tamil Nadu ;-)

    -F
    Koodave vechitu enna maranthutingalae annan

  54. #54
    oshhh
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    Quote Originally Posted by farce View Post
    I would like Punch Bala to be my running mate.
    I can see you as finance minister.

    -F
    do i find a place in your cabinet?

  55. #55
    newprouser
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    Quote Originally Posted by oshhh View Post
    do i find a place in your cabinet?
    Don't worry, if you don't , if you don't get, we'll form the opposition, coz

    "for villian , there has to be a HERO "

    :29:

  56. #56
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    Guys, give me some time to allocate the portfolios.

    -F

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by farce View Post
    I have an idea, why don't we have English as our national language.
    that way it won't give any special advantage to Hindi speaking people.

    -F
    No farce, the problem is, a large majority of India does not understand English. It will raise similar protests.
    Sorry that does not look like the solution to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by mickey View Post
    i think India is lucky that Hindi is the national language.
    Hindi is _not_ the national language of India It is *one of* the national languages.
    Last edited by mithyavadini; 29th July 2009 at 11:48 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by mithyavadini View Post
    No farce, the problem is, a large majority of India does not understand English. It will raise similar protests.
    Sorry that does not look like the solution to me.
    .
    It's not the best solution but the second best.
    the best solution is not have any national language at all.

    -F

  59. #59
    Jedi knight Luke Skywalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by farce View Post
    It's not the best solution but the second best.
    the best solution is not have any national language at all.

    -F
    I agree with this. We don't need a national language for at least 3 decades more.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luke Skywalker View Post
    I agree with this. We don't need a national language for at least 3 decades more.
    and after that we'll need one????

    -F

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