Thread: Home Theatre Blues - Part 1

This is a long post but I do hope that this banter helps a few ...

I recently upgraded my 10+ year old Onkyo AV Receiver (TX-DX747) with Denon AVR-1910. Well upgraded is not the correct word; more like I purchased the Denon AVR. I still hold the Onkyo AVR.

The reason why I upgraded were mainly the following:

• The Onkyo model had Dolby Digital 5.1 only and did not support DTS. This was not an issue with DVDs as Dolby Digital is standard with them. Only a select few had alternate DTS track but DVDs always have Dolby Digital.
• With Blu-ray it is different. Blu-ray can have any of the following:
  
  • Dolby Digital 5.1
  • DTS
  • Dolby Digital EX (6.1)
  • DTS-ES (6.1)
  • Dolby True HD (lossless audio)
  • DTS-HD Master Audio (lossless audio)
  Usually the Blu-ray has one of the last two. Now my Onkyo was seriously compromised for sound as it could not decode DTS. The sound used to appear as 2-ch PCM.
• The Onkyo was old generation and did not support HD sound via HDMI
• No HDMI = No upscaling. This was not a big issue although.

I purchased the Denon model after a lot of comparison between Denon AVR-1910 and Onkyo TX-SR607. Finally, the better upscaling feature of the Denon won out.

I received the AVR and even a very serious techie like me was challenged. It took me 4 hours to figure out the right connections and settings. I will not go into the full rant but here are some of the main problems that I faced:

• DVDs played by the DVD player played correctly output Dolby Digital sound but Blu-ray would not output Digital sound much less HD audio even when connected by HDMI
• Projector would not show any video via HDMI or Component

After much experimentation with my Sony BDP-S360 (Blu-ray player) and the AVR, reading the manual and searching the net, I finally managed to get things right:

1. If the Blu-ray player is set to HDMI at 1080p, the video is output by HDMI cable only; component and composite video out carry no picture. Projector was HD-ready and could not handle full HD video.
   Lesson 1: When connecting the HDMI OUT jack and other video output jacks at the same time, select/set video output to "HDMI at 1080i or less" or "Component Video to 1080i or less"
   
2. HD audio can be carried by HDMI only.
   Lession 2: set the "Audio Output Priority" to HDMI.
   
3. The previous step does not do the trick alone. HD audio is decoded when output as bitstream. Otherwise it is output as 7.1 channel discrete audio.
   Lesson 3: Set the "BD Audio Setting" to "direct" (or bitstream)
   

The above settings have done wonders and now I am able to enjoy the full HD video as well as audio ...

Well, not really, but almost. I still have only 5.1 speakers. My HT room is small and I do not have space to install rear surround speakers. But nevertheless, HD audio, and even more so, DTS HD Master audio, is spell binding!!

Now this leaves a big Q! What do I do with the Onkyo AVR? But that is another day.

really good stuff. Would really love to see the pics when the full system is setup.

I did not get one thing, how did you get the Dolby True HD sound ? Did your AVR process it correctly ? Most of the low-mid range AVRs dont process audio via HDMI and you are stuck with stereo. Don't know much about Denon, apart from the fact that they are really costly.

Ever thought of an HTPC setup for your system ?

Originally Posted by just4kix

Now this leaves a big Q! What do I do with the Onkyo AVR? But that is another day.

I would be ready to buy it....just send me some pics of the front and back, along with your quote....

Originally Posted by rajan1311

really good stuff. Would really love to see the pics when the full system is setup.

I did not get one thing, how did you get the Dolby True HD sound ? Did your AVR process it correctly ? Most of the low-mid range AVRs dont process audio via HDMI and you are stuck with stereo. Don't know much about Denon, apart from the fact that they are really costly.

Ever thought of an HTPC setup for your system ?



I would be ready to buy it....just send me some pics of the front and back, along with your quote....

Dolby True HD and DTS HD Master Audio are high definition audio and transmit pure lossless audio. These soundtracks require high bandwidth which is possible via HDMI 1.3 or above only. Hence such signals cannot be transmitted by optical / coaxial digital / SPDIF cables.

Next, the audio circuit must be able to decode and process these HD audio signals. There are many AVR's in the market - some can process Dolby Digital only, some DD and DTS, while the others DD/DTS and DDTHD/DTS-HD-MA. The receivers that can process HD audio are not an issue - like the Denon AVR-1910.

So what happens if your receiver cannot process HD audio? Simple. The HD audio is downgraded to the 7.1 channel PCM or equivalent 5.1/6.1 digital track. Worse still, if the receiver does not have a decoder (like my old Onkyo did not have DTS), then I have to tell the source to downgrade that track as 2-ch PCM. This is the exact problem I had. I had blu-ray with DTS HD Master audio and I was getting 2-channel stereo sound.

So, to recap, to process HD audio, you require:

a) Source that can output HD audio - typically a BD player and a BD movie
b) HDMI out at the source
c) An AVR that can process HD audio
d) HDMI-in at the audio processor
e) and finally, the source must output HD audio as bitstream or as-is (not downmix it).

--------

I often thought about HTPC but the never got to round it really.

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I don't have a picture of the rear side. Here is the front:
Receiver.JPG

But here is the picture from web: . Of course mine is golden coloured.

Onkyo TX-DS747 manual

But I have not really thought of selling it.

-------
P/s. Read all about it:

DTS HD Master Audio

Dolby True HD

thanks a lot. SO i finally understood why so many AVRs give stereo output even while playing Bluray.

How much did you pay for the denon anyways ?

Originally Posted by rajan1311

thanks a lot. SO i finally understood why so many AVRs give stereo output even while playing Bluray.

How much did you pay for the denon anyways ?

The Denon AVR-1910 is relatively expensive at 42K.

But if you are interested in a really good HT system, consider Onkyo HT-S6200 7.1-Channel Home Entertainment Receiver/Speaker Package (with Dock for the iPod).

This system should be costing around Rs. 48~52K (MRP = 59K).

Page: ONKYO SIGHT & SOUND INDIA

actually Rs42k is not bad. The basic yamaha RX-V363 gives only Stereo output via HDMI. That costs Rs33k here ($229 in the US though). So, your denon is really good buy IMO

The Yamaha model that you mention falls in the lower-end. It cannot process HD audio.

But it will yield 5.1 digital via HDMI. You should check your source setup. Check the audio set up of the source player. Change the audio out to bitstream or direct (it must be set to downmix or mix or PCM at the moment).

we tried playing a DVD on the laptop and the graphics card HDMI out was used (on the laptop 4650). Maybe it was our fault. The DVD had a 5.1 out btw. Could not find a fix on the net though...

Does the laptop/desktop have the soundcard that can output Dolby Digital or DTS as is? I suspect that this is the issue.

If you can borrow a standalone DVD player with HDMI-out, I am sure that the Yamaha can output DD.

the graphics card has an onboard 7.1 ch chip but i doubt it can output Dolby Digital or DTS. Maybe thats the basic issue.

We had actually gone to the yamaha showroom, its pretty far from my place. But i did read many others had a similar issue.


Anyways, i think i have disturbed your flow, please, i cant wait for part 2 on this topic!

That is the issue. There is no DD or DTS decoder/processor in your system. So the SPDIF output is read as 2-ch or 7-ch discrete audio.

Part 2 is posted: http://www.indiabroadband.net/home-a...tml#post270991 (Home Theatre Blues - Part 2: Things to consider while buying an AV Receiver)

Wow.. so, you upgraded your existing fabulous Home Theatre.. It was a great day when I visited your place and was awestruck by the set-up... Wonder how would it be now...

One question. Have they started selling 3-D setups for home? Or it just requires a pair of Glasses to achieve that effect even in the existing home theatre?

Originally Posted by itsmemad

Wow.. so, you upgraded your existing fabulous Home Theatre.. It was a great day when I visited your place and was awestruck by the set-up... Wonder how would it be now...

One question. Have they started selling 3-D setups for home? Or it just requires a pair of Glasses to achieve that effect even in the existing home theatre?

Proper 3D TVs and BDPs will soon be arriving in market. What is available right now is 3D technology of the previous generation - remember Chota Chetan?

I have blu-ray disc of Monsters vs. Aliens that has a 10 minute film called Bob's Day Out in 3D. The disc package came with 4 glasses with red/green celophane. I have a review somewhere. Search my threads (started by me).