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Ban on Bajrang dal

  1. #1
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    Default Ban on Bajrang dal

    As you all may have already heard in news about talks of Bajrang dal being considered for a ban in India...

    I havent been following the news very closely atleast on the political front in the past few weeks as Ive been paying too much attention on the stock market so I dont really have a clear picture of whats happening on this front.

    Why is bajrang dal picked upon? Any agency found any proof of the voilence against Christians being initiated by Bajrang dal?

    I suppose its a matter for Judiciary to step in if and when they find any proof of them being involved... isnt it?

    Its a shame that one part or the other in India is always in news for communal voilence and its been nonstop ever since I can remember.

    I have never listened to any speaches or even read about what agenda Bajrang dal has but if they are living in peace whats prompting our political leaders to ban them? if they have been a party to the voilence in Orrisa and Karnata I think it was why has no one been arrested?

    Those states where communal voilence has still not been contained should really be put under presidents rule and army sent over to those states to bail the police out who are known to do nothing in times of need.


    What do you say?

  2. #2
    Guardian Angel just4kix's Avatar
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    Bajarang Dal is being accused of insinuating communal violence.

    In the poor tribal regions of India such as Orissa, Chattisgarh, etc. Christian Missionaries are involved in converting Hindus to Christians. They supposedly do this by luring the people with money, education, shelter and support. The Bajrang Dal and VHP is taking this as the proverbial red flag to a bull. They are saying that these are forced conversions.

    Insuniating speeches have been made. Some inflamed locals attacked the missions, churches and nuns have been raped. I am quite sure that the people that committed these acts had no sympathy for Hindu religion. They just got a license to commit attrocities and get protected at the same time.

    VHP/Bajrang Dal may or may not be directly invoved. The culprits that did commit the dastradly act much be caught, tried and punished. If they happen to be VHP/Bajrang Dal members and VHP/Bajrang Dal is directly responsible then actions need to be taken.

    But I am not impressed with the VHP/Bajrang Dal stand - peaceful or not, against the conversions. Why do Indian temple trusts not do anything to promote Hinduism?

    The Balaji temple at Tirupati has already a Gold plated top and I am hearing that the entire walls will be covered by Gold. But why can't they form Hindu missions, go to tribal areas and promote Hinduism, generate employment, spread education?

    The other day there was a big tragedy in Rajasthan, a few months ago in HP. What is being done about it by the temple shrine trusts?

    Politicians just want to prove a point and talks about banning Bajrang Dal will happen. But there is no proof the BD was actively involved in the violence, as yet.
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    The congress led UPA is deleberately trying to divert the peoples attention from the main issues of Terrorism & Inflation... The Finance minister has admitted that he cannot arrest the inflation & all the UPA leaders have admitted that they will not bring tough acts against terrorists for fear from of losing the minority votebank... Therefore they have created trouble in BJP ruled states & have smartly diverted peoples attention from the real issues...

    And for a moment lets suppose Bajrang Dal is involved directly...

    Banning Bajrang Dal is not going to solve any issues... First and foremost the parliament has to enact a law banning en masse conversion into any faith... This is the main issue...

    Any single person has the right to convert himself/herself but when houses after houses, villages after villages get converted…don't you think it is fishy business???

    Time for thinking-
    Many lives were lost because the concerned govt. did not take prompt action and because the law enforcing agencies are doing work that actually is not under their jurisdiction...

    To resolve this problem amicably let the central govt. enact a law that bans conversion en masse.... I repeat, first and foremost the parliament has to enact a law banning en masse conversion into any faith... This is the main issue...

    Having said so, I appeal to my Hindu brothers and sisters to stop destroying their churches & mosques and stop killing human beings...
    Last edited by itsmemad; 12th October 2008 at 03:16 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  4. #4
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    No more supporters of Bajrang Dal?
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  5. #5
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    Hmmm controversial thread .....

    Well from what i have heard .... The Christians attacked in Orissa were Dalit Christians The people attacking them were Tribals ...there was a long standing jealousy on Dalits by these tribals , as dalits had some reservation which The tribals were not given [by the Indian govt] so Dalits were slightly well of....these opportunistic tribals took the chance under the garb of Religion to attack these Dalits [and mainly rob these people of valubles].....We all know that communist Maoists took responsibility for the assassination ...and few of them have been arrested with guns and black fatigue .....so there is no murder charge here

    Well anyway lets just assume that this supposed "forced conversion" was true ....does that warrant rape and murder by burning alive people?Especially those involved in Charity,orphanages etc ?
    These people are worse than murders who atleast have a solid reason to commit crime
    Is Bajrang Dal involved in it? I have no idea .....But it seems their activists prominently participated in the attack/incitation...

    I have full faith in the secular Indian Judicial system ..... As there have been hundreds arrested ...... And the Indian media played a prominent part pressurizing the Lethargic police into action ! ...well there has been concrete steps taken ...but yes presidents rule will help in relocate refugees and restoring peace...

    If Bajrang Dal was found to have participated in the attack then i think its a good idea Banning them ......

    Otherwise they ll destroy the very fabric of secularism that holds the vastly diverging people of India together ..... And they are against the Ethos of Mahatma Gandhi and the other founding fathers of India and not to forget the Indian Constitution itself which Defines the Modern Indian "Unity in Diversity " .......
    Last edited by ShAdOwCoN; 12th October 2008 at 09:09 PM.

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    What exactly is a forced conversion? when some one who has been converted comes up and complains that he has been forcibly converted... atleast that what I think forcibly converting some one means... this used to happen in old times when the likes of Aurangzeb used to rule India... not any more.. no one can point a gun at some one ans say you convert or you be dead.

    Its not jungle raj her any more and if some one is forced to convert into a particular relegion let him/her go to the police register a FIR and thats how it should be tackeled... who is this mob and or Bajrang dal (if they are invloved) to claim that forcible conversions are taking place?

    If forcible conversions are taking place who ever are being forced should report it but if no one is reporting it I would say nothing is being done forcibly.

    But thats how I think and I might be wrong coz I am not that much into relegion and all that and dont really understand what all this fuss is all about.

    I think converting to a relegion or x religion is an individuals own choice and one can convert as many times as they like ... its a free country.

    By the way has anyone ever complained of being forcebly converted and what force would some one use to convert some one to a religion? I dont get the whole theory.

    And yes even if people are being forced to convert there is a legal system in our country ... go file a case against those involved.
    Last edited by Admin; 12th October 2008 at 09:03 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  7. #7
    ShAdOwCoN
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    Hmmm Good qeustion and good answer ....Have the people who have been "forcibly converted" complained at all ?...... ironically , these supposedly "forcibly converted people " are the ones who r being tortured and driven into forests and had their homes burnt down .... Have these people achieved anything good by all this violence .....

  8. #8
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    I don't know conversions which were taking place were forced or not... but it was huge in no. for sure... as I already said... it was a fishy business going around... In a "democracy".. if people start abusing the tool of "freedom"... then obviously repercussions are bound to happen... thats y I'm shouting out on the roof.... that there must be a law to ban en masse conversion.... its the only way to stop killings of innocent people... banning units like bajrang dal and VHP won't help... they will come again with different names...

  9. #9
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    well basically i guess the thing is like these "so called forced covertees" were given financial support and other help by the christians...

    So they converted to christianity (whether it was forced, or voluntarily or part of the business is the question)

  10. #10
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    Well I just digged out a news article from Times Of India, which informs that even some people in christian community admits that forced conversion was taking place cuz of one of their groups... read the 1st para...

    Christian group denies charge of forced conversion-India-The Times of India

    I still stick with my view that whether forced or not... Govt. sud ban the root cause...

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    Quote Originally Posted by itsmemad View Post
    Well I just digged out a news article from Times Of India, which informs that even some people in christian community admits that forced conversion was taking place cuz of one of their groups... read the 1st para...

    Christian group denies charge of forced conversion-India-The Times of India

    I still stick with my view that whether forced or not... Govt. sud ban the root cause...
    What is the root cause?

  12. #12
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    :lol: I'm shouting here about it... & u still didn't get it...
    I'm asking for a ban on en masse conversion in any faith... thats the root cause...

    p.s.- I'm not a supporter of Bajrang Dal or VHP either...

  13. #13
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    The problem is that supporters of bajrang Dal never really Understood the Conversion thing fairely....

    There were (are) a lot of people in India who r poor and absolutely ignored by politicians .And like J4k said Hindus do not carry out missionary activities on a large scale, so these desolate people are never taken care of ....

    By christian and Muslim tenants ,These people are supposed to be helped by holy people . These holy people (missionaries ) are not politicians like Bajrang Dal activists ....Their main activity is Charity and spreading God's word (obviously god of their respective religion ).... Thats all they do ....

    its suspicious that a lot of villages were converted ? Not so suspicious when you consider two points
    -->These people in the affected villages were absolute poor people(dalits) ignored by these politicians who now go about instigating Communal frenzy .

    -->Obviously considering the above highlighted line it becomes clear that they were targets for missionarys .

    -->As Nobody else [govt ]except the missionaries cared for them they turned to that religion

    For the same reason [her religion] Mother Teresa [a European] Cared for thousands of Indian poor[how fishy is that] ....You would def have heard stories of her charities .... Most of the people she took care of became Christians ...for a damn good reason
    Mother Terasa 's Mission was also attacked In Orissa ...it was one of the major Missions operating in that area .

    -->Ofcourse because Dalit Chrisitians and Muslims Get more Concessions from the govt [like quota] some convert to one of the religions ....But you can barely call it forced ....

    I think the only way to stop the voilence is to arrest/ban the perportarators/criminals/participants and all people Involved in instigating this voilence .....

    W
    ell thats what the govt is doing and the voilence has nearly ended

    Some Chrisitians concede that some conversions were forced ? ....where are the people who were forcfully converted ...why have nt they complained yet ,now they r free rite?

    But most of India whichever religion they r agree on one thing that oppurtunistic people took a flimsy reason to attack innocent people


    Why even the Maoists , who r known to be blatently Anti-religion/Atheists (Communists) said they were so outraged by the on goings that they have blacklisted some VHP and Bajrang Dal local leaders for assasinations...you will know if you have read the latest interview their spokesperson gave


    Quote Originally Posted by itsmemad View Post
    :lol: I'm shouting here about it... & u still didn't get it...
    I'm asking for a ban on en masse conversion in any faith... thats the root cause...

    p.s.- I'm not a supporter of Bajrang Dal or VHP either...
    This is just a discussion ....Nothing Personal

    PS: I am not very religious either .....But the rape of the Nun in particular has outraged me .....
    Last edited by ShAdOwCoN; 12th October 2008 at 11:46 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  14. #14
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    Yeah, its not personal... I'm also enraged & peeved by that nun's rape & killing of innocent people... I also agree with wot u said that these attacks are happening since Mother Teresa's days... Thats y I'm vouching for ban on en masse conversion(not occasional) in any faith... I'm ready to sacrifice that freedom... I presume many who r not so religious and care for humanity will also won't have any problem in sacrificing that freedom... Even if democracy is about freedom... I'm against this particular freedom... cuz its killing people...

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by itsmemad View Post
    Yeah, its not personal... I'm also enraged & peeved by that nun's rape & killing of innocent people... I also agree with wot u said that these attacks are happening since Mother Teresa's days... Thats y I'm vouching for ban on en masse conversion(not occasional) in any faith... I'm ready to sacrifice that freedom... I presume many who r not so religious and care for humanity will also won't have any problem in sacrificing that freedom... Even if democracy is about freedom... I'm against this particular freedom... cuz its killing people...
    No you got me wrong ....its not happening since mather teresa's days ... She is one of the most revered personality in India ... Second only to Gandhi if you ask me ...
    On her death Many presidents ,UN secretary General and so many Lay Indian citizens Attended her Funeral ....there was no one who doubted her intentions of helping the poor.
    Even her mission was not Spared ...thats what i was highlighting

  16. #16
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    Default Barking Dogs Seldom Bite

    Whatever... people are getting killed... And I'm sure govt. will not do anything against Bajrang Dal or VHP either...

    As I said earlier in my 1st post... UPA has raked this issue "Ban Bajrang Dal"... just for short political gains & divert people attention from its failure on several fronts... we can't deny the fact that politicians are always involved in spreading communal feelings among innocent people...

    Barking dogs seldom bite... They will never ban Bajrang Dal or VHP, They know that banning those organization will backfire, as we have seen what happened in Gujarat elections, sonia called modi a "maut kaa saudagar", and we know the rest is history, congress lost badly, same thing could happen on a national level... Ban any of those organizations and congress will be wiped out of political map for ever... They know it very well... And they can't stop making useless & foolish comments for short political gains...

    Again, if they really care... they should ban the root cause...

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    Quote Originally Posted by itsmemad View Post
    :lol: I'm shouting here about it... & u still didn't get it...
    I'm asking for a ban on en masse conversion in any faith... thats the root cause...

    p.s.- I'm not a supporter of Bajrang Dal or VHP either...
    That would mean we would have to change the constitution , banning conversion would mean taking away the freedom to follow any relegion.

    I know you said mass conversions... well mass or single a conversion to another relegion is an individual choice.. is it not?

    If conversions are banned we wont be a democracy any more... is that waht you want?

    LOL the reason I asked you to answer my root cause question was that I didint want you to go back on what you had said earlier...
    Last edited by Admin; 13th October 2008 at 12:57 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  18. #18
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    Yes, I want that freedom to be taken away... All things of democracy are not helping... People are getting killed in the name of democracy... And I justified it in my earlier post also...

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    So instead of putting the killers behind the bars we should ban everyone from converting to the religion of their choice?

    Is this what you meant or am I just misunderstanding you?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Admin View Post
    So instead of putting the killers behind the bars we should ban everyone from converting to the religion of their choice?

    Is this what you meant or am I just misunderstanding you?
    Put the killers behind the bars... But more killers will come... If mass conversions takes place...
    Its happening since a long time... so just ban the mass conversions... and stop killings... stop politicians from spreading communal riots on 1 point atleast...

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    What you are saying is well out of order...

    What you are saying is that the criminals who used voilence against Christians should be made happy by banning conversions and those who would like to convert in future should be banned and if they do it would make them criminals?


    So once you are made the prime minester of India you would ban conversions in India... what about those who are christians now and want to convert to Hinduism? would you allow them?
    Would you give them state honours who set those villages on fire?

  22. #22
    Alligator itsmemad's Avatar
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    I'm saying that its the politicians who encourage those criminals... And we Indians should rise above from religious sentiments... And I'm not asking for a complete ban... Occassional conversion is allright... but there should be some check on mass conversion....
    I'm not talking about any particular religion also... ban mass conversion in any faith... check it again in previous posts...

  23. #23
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    I think corrupt politicians are responsible and not Mass conversions ... already RSS/BJP has got into trouble with Muslims [Babri Masjith ].....Congress with Sikhs [Anti-Sikh riots of the 80 s] .....BJP against Muslims again [Inflammatory Movie CDs] ....Now Christians ...They just keep finding new reasons

    Latest being Mass Conversion .....

    Uprooting these elements[people] is the main task ....cause if encouraged they ll keep finding new reasons
    Their Aim is to incite Majority community against some minority community and take this oppurtunity to put themselves in power along with taking up some followers who wrongly believe that these people are interested in the welfare of the common people

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    I am against any kind of voilence... doesnt matter what the justification the voilent party is giving... you can never justify voilence against anyone... what is the legal system here for?

    If someone doesnt like something take legal action and if you cannot do anything legally that means its legal and if youve got problems with other law abiding citizens then you are at fault and you need to find another country to live in.

    By you I mean those who use voilence.

    And same goes for those who are planting bombs in India in the name of jihad... or what ever they call it... they need to be chucked out of this country ... got no right to kill innocent people.
    Last edited by Admin; 13th October 2008 at 02:06 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  25. #25
    ShAdOwCoN
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    Exactly ...y take the law into our hands ? y do we have a govt ,leaders etc

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    itsmemad I hope you wont take anything I said to your heart

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    Quote Originally Posted by Admin View Post
    itsmemad I hope you wont take anything I said to your heart
    Can I afford to do that? :lol:

    well, as long as it doesn't get personal I don't mind... don't worry... chill.. I'm just pissed of current bunch of politicians... therez not a single hero like personality... whom we can follow... Mr. Singh or Vajpayee are too mild... We are suffering from identity crisis... There should be atleast one person whose call should unite whole nation... be it Mahatma Gandhi or Subhash Chandra Bose... we need 1..

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    There is a need of a lot of educated politicians in our country (there are some already but thats not enough)
    Our country is run with vot bank politics and not on economic and other agendas... elections are fought on religion and caste and all that ... this sort of rotten politics needs to go.

    We need to get our whole nation educated... good education can get rid of a lot of problems.
    There was this right to education bill comming up what happend to it? good things are always pushed aside! never heard of it again ... is it dumped?

  29. #29
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    Chinese are way before us in this respect

    India due to its uneducated politicians/citizens is spiraling into violent chaos ....Remember that CEO who was bludgeoned to death ...there is complete anarchy in the country ...nobody seems to be able to stop it ...Tata being chucked is another example ......

  30. #30
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    @ Admin...
    I've no idea about that bill... don't worry about it now... It must be biting dust somewhere...