India Broadband Forum

rupu1983

In my rating i can't imagine Indira Gandhi is behind of Manmohan Singh
My serial, only top five i am giving
1st Indira Gandhi
2nd Atal Bihari Vajapayee
3rd Lal Bahadur Shastri
4th Jawaharlal Nehru
5th Rajiv Gandhi

Admin

Does anyone here remembers how many of our soldiers were killed in the peace keeping force sent to Srilanka back in the 90's ?
It was one of the greatest blunders by any government in India.

just4kix

OK. Respect your opinion. But you do not know what Emergency was. How could you? I was very young myself. But my father/mother, uncles told me enough stories.

rupu1983

I was just thinking about that only emergency is the negative & fascist decision but still Nationalization of Bank,Garibi Hatao,She tackle the Punjab problem very well & Simla agreement lots of positive point is present.I think she got the lesson from emergency even she defeated from RaiBareilly after that.We all know that time Jayaprakash Narayan was the opposition leader and over night(25/06/1975) he was arrested after emergency declare.Even i was not born that time all source is book and my mother(she teach my history from childhood).Yes i also condemn emergency and i think that time entire India support Narayan in anti-Indira movement.

itsmemad

Even I heard that Emergency period was real bad... Can u share some stories/ill-effects of emergency(perhaps on a new thread)?

Still I will like next PM to be like Indira Gandhi in personality if not policies... Little agressive, proud, fearless, good orator, a lady(cherry on the cake but probably not possible in next election atleast)! Sushma Swaraj is perfect... She knows so many Indian Languages... from north-to-south... Her image is clear... She'll really connect with all the Indians... But probably she'll be considered for the post only when her grand-daughter will enter politics! lol

One point u missed J4X about Indira Gandhi- Punjab riots/insurgency... a major failure!

I didn't know that Jayaprakash Narayan was such a prominent figure for whole India at that time... I only knew he was a leader from Bihar during emergency and that he was my mum's fufa(uncle)...

rupu1983

But that time he was the famous opposition leader of parliament in India and i think we diverted now but still just remember what happen in Punjab in those days i don't want to enter such issue(very sensitive) but i still feel she took few over aggressive step looking to the future of country i think solve of that problem is the biggest justification of her decision.But still personally i believe she can take that problem lot better way rather than such military operation

itsmemad

Maybe... I don't know exactly what happened... but since it happened during her tenure... people say that she was also responsible for it!

just4kix

As I said in my post, Indira Gandhi plunged the nation into greater darkness by implementing the fundamentals of the license raj. She deeply compounded the follies of her illustrious father. Nehru's sociallistic policies were a failure. Such policies curb the natural creativity of man. Instead highly inefficient state owned companies were created. These were nothing but employment guaranteed organization. Words like accountability, profit, natural wealth creation, responsibility, efficiency, output, etc. all lost meaning.

Indira Gandhi went further and pushed India into a deeper mess. Nationalisation of banks was a prime example. All those banks that were making a profit now became the monuments of corruption. The License Raj , MRTP, CAFEPOSA, MISA, etc. brought in corruption. The caused a brain drain. A Doctor had to wait for a year to get his license to practice. Naturally, bribery was the way out. The Lincese system said that you could not manufacture as much as you like or how much the consumer wanted or as per the market demand - the state dictated that figure. So iwhen my father wanted a scooter, he was told, pay the booking amount and come back after 12 years!

India began with a great hope in 1950s. That hope turned into worry in 1960s. In 1970s and 1980s, it turned to crisis and hopelessness. Even today, we feel that we cannot change the system (for any issue) - we feel that it is hopeless and pointless. The generations of 1970s and 1980s failed to create the wealth. Wealth creation was looked at badly.

The young generation of India is very fortunate that they are born in the late 80s and saw the benefits of open economy. What should have been done in the late 70s or early 80s was done in 1991 when the nation had no option and was sitting on bankruptcy. If that had not been the case, we would not have seen the open ecomony even today.

Today the young person still wants to go to America or the west to earn money but they like to return back. In the 70s and 80s, it was a one way street. The best minds of the country left the nation because they could not wait 8 years for a telephone, 10+ years for a scooter, 2 hours in queue for each and everything, etc.

A generation was lost!!! And I blame Indira Gandhi for this. Perhaps all this is in posterity and hindsight and in hindsight you can blame a lot of thing on someone else; but maybe that is also why I am not a leader. Leadership is all about future vision, looking forward and creating a path for prosperity.

__________________

rupu1983

Before reply I have just consult with my father in the early morning (in charge of Invest & finance department UBI head office in India) only last year few National Bank did lose(but overall they run in profit) and 99-00 Bank started to profited bank is not running in loss now.It's not true that before nationalization bank were very good lots of Bank were runing in loss that time.In that movement Bank of Baroda & Canara Bank is in very good position.
Even opposition never blame for nationalization of bank.
Benefit
1.Lot security of common middle class people (just ask majority of Indian)
2.Govt. income is much more increase after nationaztion of Bank.
3.We know how private bank behavior with those person who failed to give the installment of loan.
4.Lot of security increase of job for the employ.
Any one can say Govt. undertaking Bank is a 'monuments of corruption' just see his/her local Branch manger/clerk but the fact at that moment Bank overall worker doing lot better and punctual job rather than other few state Govt. department.
[I saw my father is doing job even 7:30 PM 2 and half hour extra only for pressure of work no extra money for that]

just4kix

Banks have run into profit only after the 90s. This was due to open economic policies. The nationalized banks had two classes of employees - officers and grade II workers. Officers worked hard while grade II workers (part of the union) rarely worked.

1. Prior to the 90s, no bank gave loan to common people. That is why an institution like HDFC became very popular because they disturbed loans without beauracratic delays.

2. The Nationalized banks had to give loans to dubious people with political connections. These became NPAs.

3. Private banks are not saints. But a bank is not supposed to be charitable organization.

4. Job security is fine but that should not give rise to inefficiency.

Nationalization did bring some benefits as well. But it is my firm opinion that it is not the job of the government to run businesses and industries. This should be left to the experts. The job of the Government is to govern, form policies that benefit people (not populist measures), bring in legislation, bring control where control is necessary and unshackle chains where they are curbing the growth.

From 1950s to 1980s, India grew at an average of 3% and we were always blaming our problems and poverty on the British.

rupu1983

Indira Gandhi was the famous personality in India her decision making power & good future vision create her a great PM although her all decision is not the above of controversy couple of wrong step she has taken but still in my opinion she was the best prime minster up to date and Now I am clearly explaining the reason
She started her political carrier as information & broadcast minister(1964) within two year she became prime minister after sudden death of Lal Bahadur Shastri she became India’s prime minister in India(1966). Now I am trying to make the summery of her period work
Garebe Hatao and Green revolution -Lots of person thought that Green revolution did Lal Bhadur Sashtri he stared the project that true but he did not do much in his 2 year period of prime minister actual Green revolution has done in Punjab at the time of Indira Gandhi. She spoke in UN that poverty is the biggest polluter.

Nationalization of Bank – 1969 Indira Gandhi did Nationalization of Bank it helps India lots for progress.
Now not only for job security it’s reliable for middle class people in this economical crisis her decision helps lot to protect our economy. Banking is not only for profit it also for the help of the rural and agricultural help now some one can tell about HDFC bank just we want to know how much this private bank did to increase the development of India, if India’s rural picture made little difference then this national bank help lot.

Condition of poor people- In her time Indian BPL list has changed in 1973 where 54% in BPL list in 1983 it reduced to 42% (source P Chidambaram statement).

Simla Agreement- Simla agreement with Zulfikar Ali Bhutto it gave a settlement in Kasmir disput.

Bangladesh freedom fight – She help Bangladesh(1971) to free from Pakistan where lot of Bengali speaking people facing the torture of Pakistan Govt. India’s this step reduce Pakistan power from south asia and it’s also humanitarian step.

Won the 1971 war-India won the battle in Rajasthan border only by few militants in her time.

Success in space- Rakesh Sharma was the first Indian who travels in space in 1984

India become nuclear power- In 1974 India first tests successfully nuclear weapon in Pokhran and India become nuclear power.

Future thinking- First time she try to create law for family planning to see the population rate in India but she couldn’t do it because lot of protest .Now we are feeling that population is India’s most big problem.

Emergency the historical blunder- This is the most negative work in her time the declaration of emergency(June,1975) by pressuring president Fakhruddin Ali Ahmed that was the fascist decision of her and she got the lesson in next election(1977).

Controversial operation Blue star --We know that in that period Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale one of Khalistani leader demanding new free Khalistan. In June 1984 She gave the decision to commander to Major Kuldeep Singh Brar (this Kuldeep singh is hero of 1971 Indo-Pak war we saw his character in the movie Border did Sunny Deol) to military attack on the holy Golden temple .I feel She could tackle it other way but still She just try to finish the problem. Few people like Major Kuldeep Singh believe necessary step she had taken. Please read his opinion

But still I feel Indira Gandhi killed the humanity at that stage and its dark episode of Indian politics.

What ever her period is good or bad I will still remember her as a great personality and good prime minster like in history I remember asoka not for Kanliga war he became famous for peace.

meetdilip

Don't go by myths. The best candidate for PM is the one with vision. He need not be a first rank, or have a doctorate. he need not be an expert in a particular field. actually being an expert in a field is a drawback. He will be biased and fail to see many things.

Our PM should be a leader, not a manager. A manager make you do things, we do it ourselves for a leader.

if you check, our PM has a very good administrative board. A council of ministers who actually represent various ideologies like parties, regions, languages, cast, religion. You will find almost all category.

next, he can access a panel of experts called secretaries. A secretary will be an expert in his field. with at least 25 years experience.

PM should be capable to understand the ideas they present. He should be acceptable to all groups.

I think A B Vajpayee would have been a good choice. Unfortunately he is not in the race.

If you see road development plans, they actually helped us all in person and the nation as a whole. If you can travel and transport goods in a reduced time frame, it can give more than you imagine. Simply think the change cell phones brought. roads can give similar output.

and, i have nothing to do with a particular party.

itsmemad

Thats right... Situation after Vajpayee's government tenure was much better than it is now... Many highways were built or projects started in that time... Economy was booming...

Current government has only made railways a profitable entity... And has brought in more quotas for OBCs etc in central universities(What was the need?)... Recession didn't help their case either...

kirankumargb

yes BJP was surely better in that aspect...! one good deed which i liked the most during that time was Oil rates(Fuel). They had made the rule that if in international market oil rates go up then in India also it will go up, if it comes down then here also.. so no reason here to blame the Govt to increase or decrease the prices... but now its not there now the rate fixed by the Govt is final irrespective to the International market...!

Comparison....
when the oil was 160 USD per barrel in India the price was around 55 Rs/ltr now the oil is just 38 USD per barrel still in India the price is ~50 Rs/ltr.... just use the common sense and see how much Govt is eating in fuel....

This is just in 1 sector there are many more...

just4kix

rupu, You have attributed a lot of praises to Mrs. Gandhi. But I am much afraid that she deserves very little of the accolades.

Garribi Hatao: What an absolute bull $hit! Nothing but an election slogan that fooled a lot of people. I will not say more. India's BPL percent has improved because of some right policies that were brought in in the early 90s. And Congress or any other party cannot take credit for the same. In fact, for the politicians, it suits them to have a mass poor vote bank. Rich (or middle class) people get educated and educate people think and they think what is best for them.

Green Revolution: Green revolution was started in 1968 and achieved in 1971. Should I say any more?

Simla Agreement: Settlement of Kashmir issue! Really? Simla Agreement was nothing but a blunder. It achieved nothing.

Bangladesh: It was inevitable. India helped. Do you know that Gen. Manekshaw (as he then was), walked into Mrs. Gandhi's room and gave a very grim picture of the state of affairs. It was then, Mrs. Gandhi agreed to do something. But Pakistan attacked on Dec. 3, 1971 on the western front and then war was a given decision.

Operation Blue Star: This was her own doing. As I was telling itsmemad the other day. Mrs. Gandhi and Zail Singh created the 'Bhasmasur' in the form of Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale to check the advent of the Akali Dal in Punjab.

She did have some positives though. Pokharan I was one of them. And she was iron willed. Alas, that become her legacy as well.

kirankumargb

yes i totally agree with J4K its correct.... congress has always watched their profit first.... when Ind and Pak war began in 1971 Ind had almost reached the heart of pakistan but as a wish to win the world peace award Mrs.Gandhi gave back the province back to pak's ( i dont blame for that) but in the mean while pak also captured a piece of Kashmir and till today that province is known as POK (Pakistan Occupied Kashmir) what did she do about that.......? NOTHING and till today we are having the headache of it....

Ruchika Akhtar

Very well stated, i totally agree with you .. by providing this type of Quota facility many deserving candidiates don't get admission in good colleges, govt jobs etc

rupu1983

Although I also believe most of the party think first their own interest but still any one can blame Mrs.Ghandhi for POK but still i think Pak occupied kashmir at the 1947-48 so it's the mistake of J.Neheru more than the Mrs.Gandhi.

I never agree with Manish and this may be off topic and I have already posted lots reply on that topic so i don't want to post more after this

i want to say only one think that quota system is implemented because of
the participation of the every society in all sector of country and another think this method not a new and not a solitary thing of India.If anyone look at the world wide then like in games also this process is applying in entire world look at the World Cup football where if Asian quota is not applied by the FIFA then no Asian country would get chance in world cup most of the European country would play that games same case present for Olympic also.Now question is Japan, Korea (although they have wonderful infrastructure like Europe) they get the benefit of this reservation but still it's applied for participation of all sector it can inspire that community or area and which will eventually help the progress.
Finally may be the new quote will be introduce that 33% seat reservation for women in parliament( may be in 15th Loksabha) i also agree with that may be that mean we can loss few good male MP in parliament but it will open another area of the society may it will also inspire the women to participate in Indian politics.
[In last Lokshabha election(2004) only 45 women candidate elected(only 355 contestant) in total 543 seats that mean only 8.2% women MP present in Lokshabha]

rupu1983

BPL percentage down by steadily and we all need to give credit Indira Gandhi also then check the report is it only "fake slogan of vote" or she did something.

800px-BPL_Data_GOI_.png

source-Planning Commission of India

But sorry to say in last 5 years nothing has changed in 2004-05 this BPL percentage is 27.5% and almost same in this time also.

meetdilip

Yes, we should not cease giving reservations. But make sure they reach the right candidate. What is the creamy layer now? 3.5 LAKHS per annum?

I am amused to learn somebody who earns 30,000 per month is backward and needs some kind of boosting to come to main stream. Speaking the truth, "money is power", may you be forward, backward, christian, muslim sikh or anything, you have money, there are people who will help you.

We give reservations in education and jobs. An engineering seat at Tamilnadu or bangalore may cost max 1.5 lakhs these days. When you earn 3.5 lakhs, do you really need quota. When you have money, you got influential friends........jobs?

Please leave these slots to those who really need it. I hear people praise a lot about communists. But they were for this increase in creamy layer. Savior of poor????????

One party likes giving quotas to muslims, other opposes it. But nobody has problem with allotting them who earns 3.5 lakhs.

I know a lot of students who could have done better if somebody was ready to spend money on their fees. Make a rule. When somebody applies for quota, first give it to one with lesser income.

Be it saffron or other , why your PM candidate is mum about this? Give quota to muslims, backwards, forwards anyone you like. but make sure they deserves it. Come with a policy, that is how you help poor.