Thread: I support quota/reservations

Originally Posted by rupu1983

My opinion is if they have come to quite normal position in society then parent can think that they will not give such benefit their child.May be that's morally right
But just think how many Indian people in all society are doing morally right thing.

Why parents should decide... it should be the law... that once a person availed all the benefits of reservation, his child should be considered as in General...

Why to pass it from one generation to another?

Whole point of reservation system is for the upliftment of deprived classes... I guess once a person takes all the benefits, he or his family is no more deprived... They are in mainstream... and they should have no grudges if there is such a law...

Originally Posted by rupu1983

Now did you know even their is genetic difference present between lower cast and upper caste.
Now why I will explain in one long reply about that.

Don't give me the bullshit that since lower caste have some genetic difference from upper, they should be given reservation...

Most practical solution.

Originally Posted by itsmemad

Why parents should decide... it should be the law... that once a person availed all the benefits of reservation, his child should be considered as in General...

Why to pass it from one generation to another?

Whole point of reservation system is for the upliftment of deprived classes... I guess once a person takes all the benefits, he or his family is no more deprived... They are in mainstream... and they should have no grudges if there is such a law...

Because that does not mean that if parent got benefit then child will never face any type discrimination in society.Economical background is not the only one problem for lower caste people mate.In village condition is terrible for lower caste people.

Originally Posted by itsmemad

Don't give me the bullshit that since lower caste have some genetic difference from upper, they should be given reservation...

If you did not belive in biology then i can;t do anything but it' s 100% true .
The few tribal/caste genetic order is other than other few upper caste people.Because marriage type relationship never happen due to those two caste for more than 1000 years.If you not believe me i can't do anything.
tell me why japanes are short in height. Their is genetic theory always present.
I am not saying they can't have talent they have but 2-3 generation will be needed to come into main stream upper class people those are practicing education from 7-8 generation.
Problem few people never realize the difference from upper to lower caste but i have saw that cultural difference from very near.Because I a have spend at least few year in my life in both environment

Originally Posted by rupu1983

Because that does not mean that if parent got benefit then child will never face any type discrimination in society.

Discrimination has many meanings... When a deserving General class student doesn't get admission to a college, job etc cuz of a less meritorious rich guy from lower class... that's also a discrimination...

Look at both side of the coin... and try to balance the equation for all... when we achieve that then only we can be considered equal... else both fraternities will be getting discriminated all the time...

Originally Posted by rupu1983

If you did not belive in biology then i can;t do anything but it' s 100% true .

I didn't say that I don't believe in the biological theory you gave... I just disagree that it should be the point for reservation...

Originally Posted by itsmemad

Discrimination has many meanings... When a deserving General class student doesn't get admission to a college, job etc cuz of a less meritorious rich guy from lower class... that's also a discrimination...

Look at both side of the coin... and try to balance the equation for all... when we achieve that then only we can be considered equal... else both fraternities will be getting discriminated all the time...

No Constitution said which seat you are demanding for general that is specially created for lower caste.
Now General people are demanding also those seats .which specially created for them because they are far behind in society.
Can you still imagine one priest from non-brahim family 90% of hindu will never except. Is this job is protected for them .

Originally Posted by rupu1983

No Constitution said which seat you are demanding for general that is specially created for lower caste.

Constitution was created 60 years back mate... And since then 2 generations have already availed those benefits... why to pass it on third? You wanted equality, your father got it... Now compete with the mainstream... Let those seats/jobs for the ones who are still deprived...

Originally Posted by rupu1983

Can you still imagine one priest from non-brahim family 90% of hindu will never except. Is this job is protected for them .

That job isn't created by government... I'm talking about the jobs/opportunities created by the government...

Originally Posted by itsmemad

Constitution was created 60 years back mate... And since then 2 generations have already availed those benefits... why to pass it on third? You wanted equality, your father got it... Now compete with the mainstream... Let those seats/jobs for the ones who are still deprived...

..

Even 20 years ago what was the caste condition of society present i know that very well and that is not my credit god give such oppertunity to see the previous 2 generation condition of lower caste.
But i think agree that reservation process will never go to infinite year but still thousands of village present where lower class people life is terrible.I have saw that in my own eye in village i will discuss my experience later.
I am not 80 years old person so i saw it in 8-9 years ago.

That job isn't created by government... I'm talking about the jobs/opportunities created by the government.

yes that job has not created govt. that created by society and society has such discrimination, that's why govt. taking the care of lower caste people because society is not taking care of them.
Ok i think now we can stop debate may be few statistics require to discuss more why reservation is needed ? is it got success ? or one type of people are getting benefit ?
and how long it needed ?
Thank you

I'm not a brahmin... But I'm not interested in that job either... I want government to treat everybody equally, atleast to those who are economically equal... I don't want any special preferences for me.... cuz my family is in good condition... that should be the rule followed by every lower class guy whose family is no way inferior economically to mine...

Else as I said earlier, it will be a discrmination against guyz like me and the genuinely deprived lower-class guy...


Anyway I'm out of it now... As I know most people don't think about others when they have special privilages... No point of me going on an on...

Originally Posted by itsmemad

I'm not a brahmin... But I'm not interested in that job either... I want government to treat everybody equally, atleast to those who are economically equal... I don't want any special preferences for me.... cuz my family is in good condition... that should be the rule followed by every lower class guy whose family is no way inferior economically to mine...

Else as I said earlier, it will be a discrmination against guyz like me and the genuinely deprived lower-class guy...


Anyway I'm out of it now... As I know most people don't think about others when they have special privilages... No point of me going on an on...

Well said maddy i agree with you. And rupu being an ST I don't find any genetical disorder in me or my family. Its all in our mind. But current generation people hardly care about all these petty things as world has more for them to tackle. If you are saying that the poor ones suffer from various ailments I do agree with you because of improper sanitation and health awareness i have seen people suffering from various disorders and thats not limited to STs SCs or OBCs. People who can afford get themselves treated.

Whatever difference you are talking about when we cut our hand its the same red blood. Rest I am not able to comprehend what are the genetical differeces.

Originally Posted by Pri_dm

Well said maddy i agree with you. And rupu being an ST I don't find any genetical disorder in me or my family. Its all in our mind.

I am never saying about 'genetically disorder'.But genetically difference is present between few caste.if i mention it then i also have such genetically disorder because my caste is mixed.
Do you know survey report said immunity power is better in few area's tribal (those who are still living in jungle or typical rural area) due to adaptation.Now this will not happen if anyone living in city with two generation.Due to the working habit and living style.

Whatever difference you are talking about when we cut our hand its the same red blood. Rest I am not able to comprehend what are the genetical differeces

.

this is obvious I never said that.Genetics is the minor part of body according to Mendel parents physical & personal character both influence in their next generation.
that mean even habit also flow with generation.Assume my grandfather was a always habituated with reading of book then this character can be(not must be) flow with next or even after the next generation assume my grandfather was very good carpenter such type of habit also can flow with next generation that's why i have mention that.Lower caste people not habituated with educational culture with 10-12 generation(or even more) so it will take some time to get back in main stream or to compete with upper caste people.

Originally Posted by rupu1983

I am never saying about 'genetically disorder'.But genetically difference is present between few caste.if i mention it then i also have such genetically disorder because my caste is mixed.
Do you know survey report said immunity power is better in few area's tribal (those who are still living in jungle or typical rural area) due to adaptation.Now this will not happen if anyone living in city with two generation.Due to the working habit and living style.

.

this is obvious I never said that.Genetics is the minor part of body according to Mendel parents physical & personal character both influence in their next generation.
that mean even habit also flow with generation.Assume my grandfather was a always habituated with reading of book then this character can be(not must be) flow with next or even after the next generation assume my grandfather was very good carpenter such type of habit also can flow with next generation that's why i have mention that.Lower caste people not habituated with educational culture with 10-12 generation(or even more) so it will take some time to get back in main stream or to compete with upper caste people.

I disagree with you here.Yes in older days people used to follow what their ancestors did but My grandfather and father are too good at farming I know nothing. My mother is a good teacher so was my grandfather but I can be the worst teacher ever. These are just examples. What I really mean is its not lower caste people but the people with less awareness which can be from any caste and creed. My hubby being a brahmin I dont think he knows any chants or mantras his parents or ancestors may know ;-P.

Agree with what pri said.

Originally Posted by Pri_dm

My hubby being a brahmin I dont think he knows any chants or mantras his parents or ancestors may know ;-P.

genetics is not so simple you have some character of your ancestors which you can't deny now it also need to practice believe me 'X' chromosome always carry lots of Character even talking style,habit,personal choice,thinking procedure but it's not so simple now in case of girl its too much complicated genetics because they have two X chromosome(one from father one from mother)

2nd part
Look i passed my childhood in my mamar bari where I learn traditional Brahim rules need to know even i know lots of mantra tantra for this environment.But very funny thing is that all of mother side is I never saw my grand father(he has died in early age) but i know from my 'dida' (Grand mother) and mama and my Maa they always try to give me all brahin culture they told me knowledge is the greatest treasure for brahmin i have read lots of book in early age.I also know what is primal duty of brahmin.
Now i am hindu and if i believe in my religion then i have to follow the custom.
Now i am asking one question to you is soumyo has 'paite' (upnaine) or ever he did his 'paite' ?

we are going off topic now.

You mistook rupu. I think he meant race than genetics. He just didn't found the proper word. Upper class claim to be a different race like Aryans, Dravidian etc

interesting discussion, let me jump into the fray.
I'll be back in a minute

-F

Originally Posted by itsmemad

My point is that if the parents have already availed the Quota in their life for getting a Government Job, their child should not be given that benefit.

Wots your opinion on that?

I totally support that

IF

If for thousands of years the rule was

"If your father was a priest, then you cannot be one"
"If your father was a king, you cannot be one"
"If your father was a business man, you cannot be one"


You see thousands of years of discrimination cannot be
eliminated by a couple of generations.

-F

Originally Posted by farce

If for thousands of years the rule was

"If your father was a priest, then you cannot be one"
"If your father was a king, you cannot be one"
"If your father was a business man, you cannot be one"


You see thousands of years of discrimination cannot be
eliminated by a couple of generations.

-F

Just think for bollywood
"If your father was a filmstar, then you cannot be one"

Problem with most of us Indians is that we just don't think of whole nation... We'll be always divided cuz we just can't get over the history and castism/religion/regionalism... I'm sure after next 100-200 yrs people from upper-cast will say similar things... which is sad...

I read when I was a kid... All Indians are my brothers and sisters...blah-blah... All citizens of India have equal rights and equal opportunities... blah-blah... Now I feel everything was just a bullshit!

Originally Posted by itsmemad

Problem with most of us Indians are that we just don't think of whole nation... We'll be always divided cuz we just can't get over the history and castism/religion/regionalism... I'm sure after next 100-200 yrs people from upper-cast will say similar things... which is sad...

I read when I was a kid... All Indians are my brothers and sisters...blah-blah... All citizens of India have equal rights and equal opportunities... blah-blah... Now I feel everything was just a bullshit!

Yes I agree with you in this point that
"We'll be always divided cuz we just can't get over the history and castism/religion/regionalism"
.
Unless society will be developed and educated in all the area rural and urban this thing will be go on in afternoon i was taking you i have some personal experience now i am telling you.

In rural bengal i was went to visit with my family member (Mama's father-in-laws home).I saw in temple no lower caste can be allow and in the core area of the temple only brahmin allow now I am not a brahmin but i was with my mama(he is Brahmin as villagers know they never ask my caste) but my mama's friend did not get opportunity to enter the temple because he is not brahmin.I was astonished that even lower caste people never touch to upper caste people.I did not stay there more than two day.

Originally Posted by Endless Sky

Yes I agree with you in this point that
"We'll be always divided cuz we just can't get over the history and castism/religion/regionalism"
.
Unless society will be developed and educated in all the area rural and urban this thing will be go on in afternoon i was taking you i have some personal experience now i am telling you.

In rural bengal i was went to visit with my family member (Mama's father-in-laws home).I saw in temple no lower caste can be allow and in the core area of the temple only brahmin allow now I am not a brahmin but i was with my mama(he is Brahmin as villagers know they never ask my caste) but my mama's friend did not get opportunity to enter the temple because he is not brahmin.I was astonished that even lower caste people never touch to upper caste people.I did not stay there more than two day.

And I thought it happens only in UP Bihar. I have never seen upper caste lower caste problem in NE india

That's sad to hear. I'm always against those kind of Pandits. That's one of the reasons why I don't go to temples. I believe God is inside everyone.

The ST friend I discussed about in my earlier post is one of my best friends. We have shared our meals throughout our lives. Never felt that hez untouched or something like that.

Originally Posted by itsmemad

That's sad to hear. I'm always against those kind of Pandits. That's one of the reasons why I don't go to temples. I believe God is inside everyone.

Those are exactly my thoughts!! I also don;t go to religious place only because of that.

Originally Posted by rupu1983

Just think for bollywood
"If your father was a filmstar, then you cannot be one"

Actually I was about to bring that example in that "luck or not" thread.
There are thousands of people more talented than AB,
there are thousands of people more hardworking than AB,
there are thousands of people more good looking than AB.

but they are all not stars because the were not born to
Amithabh. So that is why I said luck is important.

well sorry for the diversion.

-F

Sorry for off topic

AB case is not luck, it is fate. Luck is given two people same situation and one got out of pure chance. Say two people guessed same question for one it was right due to luck and he got an opportunity.