Thread: I support quota/reservations

Yes, we should not cease giving reservations. But make sure they reach the right candidate. What is the creamy layer now? 3.5 LAKHS per annum?

I am amused to learn somebody who earns 30,000 per month is backward and needs some kind of boosting to come to main stream. Speaking the truth, "money is power", may you be forward, backward, christian, muslim sikh or anything, you have money, there are people who will help you.

We give reservations in education and jobs. An engineering seat at Tamilnadu or bangalore may cost max 1.5 lakhs these days. When you earn 3.5 lakhs, do you really need quota. When you have money, you got influential friends........jobs?

Please leave these slots to those who really need it. I hear people praise a lot about communists. But they were for this increase in creamy layer. Savior of poor????????

One party likes giving quotas to muslims, other opposes it. But nobody has problem with allotting them who earns 3.5 lakhs.

I know a lot of students who could have done better if somebody was ready to spend money on their fees. Make a rule. When somebody applies for quota, first give it to one with lesser income.

Be it saffron or other , why your PM candidate is mum about this? Give quota to muslims, backwards, forwards anyone you like. but make sure they deserves it. Come with a policy, that is how you help poor.

Originally Posted by meetdilip

do you really need quota. When you have money, you got influential friends........jobs?

Valid point and obviously rich person should be exclude from the quota but there is practical problem present now in case of school or college admission this method should be perfect but when this system will be critical in case of job or service now a adult person can stay with his/her family or not that does not matter then his/her parents are rich or not that does not effect his/her life so anyone can claim that they are under the above limit so some more complexity will be arise.

Originally Posted by meetdilip

Speaking the truth, "money is power", may you be forward, backward, christian, muslim sikh or anything, you have money, there are people who will help you.
.

Not always
may be new age money become all but lot of person present in city or village those who still want to distinguish the people in the cast.Still lots of conservative people present in this country.

instead having quota at all, its better to increase the number of scholarships, that way it will be better...

Giving scholarships and free education would bring up the so called backwards. Instead what we presently have is a system which never makes any effort to really uplift the "backward" classes and brings the eligibility criteria down at all levels to give them backdoor entry because they can not compete with others at equal footings.
The result is that the best brains go out of the country and our hospitals and other institutions are run by people who would not even have met the normal eligibility conditions. So every other day, there is a news of death at some hospital due to medical negligence. Same is happening to our Administrative and other services.

And the funniest part is that those families that got the benefit reservation once continue to monopolise it for genenrations despite becoming wealthy and educated (the creamy layer business is only for OBC) and deprive the other deserving persons of the same community who never got the education or the money and are the ones who really need the reservation.

Some time ago the whole of northern India was put at ransome because some particular community who has been enjoying SC status for last fifty years and have cornered all govt. jobs and benefits took to open violence to ensure that some other communities are not added to the list of reservation.

poor people dont even make it to high school in india there are many reports in the internet for this even if they come past these hurdles it will be like 0.5 percentage of these people will require a quota so for for me this quota is a mock quota no one gets benifitted by this when the seats here are not filled it moves on to the open competion so that the high castes with their hundreds of years of educational bliss and influence get all the seats monopolising it any way how many obcs and scs do u see in our cricket team 1-2 while more that 50% of our population do not belong to the higher class criteria so the people who really know hwt this quota is about want to remove the creamy layer status so that people who are in slavery for many thousands of years and still now can improve and remove the caste system once and for by economic equivalance which is challenged by high caste people in the form of strikes and youth of equality bullshit.this thread is just a ad or a propaganda paper for ur unjust and selfish cause

Originally Posted by jerry53

poor people dont even make it to high school in india there are many reports in the internet for this even if they come past these hurdles it will be like 0.5 percentage of these people will require a quota so for for me this quota is a mock quota no one gets benifitted by this when the seats here are not filled it moves on to the open competion so that the high castes with their hundreds of years of educational bliss and influence get all the seats monopolising it any way how many obcs and scs do u see in our cricket team 1-2 while more that 50% of our population do not belong to the higher class criteria so the people who really know hwt this quota is about want to remove the creamy layer status so that people who are in slavery for many thousands of years and still now can improve and remove the caste system once and for by economic equivalance which is challenged by high caste people in the form of strikes and youth of equality bullshit.this thread is just a ad or a propaganda paper for ur unjust and selfish cause

I could't really tell after reading this a couple of times. Are you for or
against reservations?

-F

Originally Posted by newprouser

instead having quota at all, its better to increase the number of scholarships, that way it will be better...

Providing jobs for the poor income level will help, reservations helps the elite of the low caste people
padma

Even if there are scholarships, that will not help much. Because the seats are limited and if there no reservations, the seats will be taken by open class. So it goes back to reservations.

Reservations have not achieved the objective at all. They never will because the benefits never reach the real needy. And even if the needy get thru, most are never able to compete in the exams and pass (okay, there will be exceptions).

The answer lies at the grassroots. Good primary schools, and lots of them. Build lots of them in remote areas. Poor people rather want their children to work as labour and bring in money. The government could give a stipend of Rs. 30 per day for children attending schools.

Most professionals retire at 58. The government should encourage them to teach at primary schools in remote areas by providing facilities such as free quarters and good salary. When passing doctors have to serve in remote areas for a couple of years, why can't retired people serve the same way?

Originally Posted by just4kix

Even if there are scholarships, that will not help much. Because the seats are limited and if there no reservations, the seats will be taken by open class. So it goes back to reservations.

Reservations have not achieved the objective at all. They never will because the benefits never reach the real needy. And even if the needy get thru, most are never able to compete in the exams and pass (okay, there will be exceptions).

The answer lies at the grassroots. Good primary schools, and lots of them. Build lots of them in remote areas. Poor people rather want their children to work as labour and bring in money. The government could give a stipend of Rs. 30 per day for children attending schools.

Most professionals retire at 58. The government should encourage them to teach at primary schools in remote areas by providing facilities such as free quarters and good salary. When passing doctors have to serve in remote areas for a couple of years, why can't retired people serve the same way?

Good point, We need solid root i.e Primary Education.. As dilip said government should give reservation to needy one, But as panchbhut said "How are we gonna decide who's needy and who's not", Background Check? Enquiry? That's not possible...

As J4K mentioned mandatory teaching by retired people rule should come.. Instead of retiring at particular age government should make them retire couple of years earlier and send them to rural areas by providing lucrative perks..

Even i contacted one NGO regarding teaching poor guys on alternate Sundays.. Let's see when will they approach me..

I have already discuss so much about this.All of this post was off topic in earlier thread but it's relevant in this thread

Originally Posted by Manish

I want to add here something:

I seriously want that "Quota" system in our country should be ruled out... Every person from any caste, religion should be considered equal. If govt. want to help some backward tribes then they should help them in monetary terms e.g. the govt should give a healthy discount in fees to the candidates who can't pay it but fixing a percentage of seat, to me not acceptable...there is should quota for disabled people, families of soldiers who lost their lives on borders etc.

I don't know how many of you will agree on this..

Originally Posted by Evander Leopold

very true, we always brag about every religion, sex to be the same. then why would the quota system be there ? if government wants to do minorities a real favour without compromising our ethics, they should provide better education, health, housing system for them instead of such stupid asskissing for their vote-bank.

PS: with u, as always.

Originally Posted by Manish

I knew it you will always be there to support my words..

Originally Posted by rupu1983

After the big debate of reservation i think this question is arising most of the time but one think we must know still Indian society is very much divided luckily i have traveled few places in India not only in big cities but also few villages.Now what are think Manish where if you can give some money to the backward cast or you give some discount of tuition fee is that's every thing no no not at all.Still society is not accept them they have much restriction in society at they are not only backward for economical point of view they backward from social point of view also.I think we all can comment any thing but at first we all have to know their social status i saw a lower cast family's student how many work he does from the morning besides his education i talk few of them they said "my parents is not aware much about education" actually from family they never get any special opportunity where us i saw some upper class family where parents spend a sleepless night when his child gives any examination how can you compare the both student result in same manner.
E.Leo you said about the vote bank policy may be true but if you want to blame any one then you have to blame at first the constitution.Because reservation is present in constitution.
I saw the banner of "Youth for equality" (very good banner and India need equality in society also) to prevent the reservation of OBC but i never saw this banner before and after the episode when we saw often in news paper how humiliation is going to the backward cast and community also then we never find this banner again.Then I understand this equity is for a special purpose.
Last thing do you know in India one act is present called Inter-cast marriage act where govt. encouraging people for inter-cast marriage and also gives some privilege to the couple and also protect them from the society but still this law did not make much success in the Indian society.

Originally Posted by Manish

I agree to you rupu, but there is always a another side to look at.
I have seen people who uses this "special reservation" quota right to get the jobs and does what...fcuk our nation whereever you go, hospitals, post offices, govt. offices you dont have to work hard to find them,they are everywhere. Okay i believe you there are some people from backwards class who are putting their everything to earn bread, i don't have any issues if the govt appoints them..but not every backward class who comes in the quota is poor

Originally Posted by newprouser

Maybe the quota system can be used in addition to evaluating a person's econimic situation. I've come accross people who are rich but belong to so called backward castes and hence given more priority over the deserving.

Originally Posted by rupu1983

Yes may be it will be fine if it can possible to check whether every person he/she is eligible(enough backward in social and economical prospective) for reservation status or not but it is impossible(specially country like India) and also laws are in general in India.Now quota is also available in sex base also lots of sector where woman quota is present(like constitution seat) now how can any body distinguish who is a eligible woman.Reservation is applied for participation of all society in every sector but obviously it has some bad side effect(like every other law).In America reservation is present as nationality base (The Immigration Act of 1924) and in racial base also(Michigan University ) but obviously some economical criteria also present.
Yes Manish you said right thing I saw lot of unprofessional worker in almost every govt sector but I don't know the cast and religion of them obviously i don't want to know that what cast they belong.Because........

Originally Posted by Manish

There we go...

Originally Posted by ShAdOwCoN

The problem with quota system is that it is very easy to change your caste ...

I know very some of my friends who were very effluent people belonging to the Frwd caste who changed their quota to BC/OBC just to get into this reservation category ......

And its not possible to verify every one's economic status ... if you can bribe an official to change your caste , surely you can bribe an official to change your status ?



I heard about a new party forming ... yet to officially open

Known as People's Professional Party of India

The Cheesy name apart , they sound very promising and the party members seem to be educated people ... we ll wait and watch

Originally Posted by rupu1983

In this days it's not easy to change the caste in legal way because if anyone want caste certificate then at first he has to submit father, grand father certificate at first(it's must) and also a letter from local MLA or chairman of the municipality.Now in case of OBC it's not necessary submit fathers certificate because that not possible in case of OBC.OBC reservation started in the base of Mandal(B. P. Mandal) Commission report(1980) which is relatively new so may be distinguish a OBC candidate from a general is little hard.
But i can't say about any illegal process because this process is always easiest.

Originally Posted by ShAdOwCoN

i did not know it was possible to change your caste in a legal way :confused1:

so i did nt bother to mention that they took the shortcut ......

What i am implying is that its really easy to manipulate this quota system ... and generally only by well off people [bribes , connections etc]
so the people who were originally meant to receive this benefits , continue suffering

Originally Posted by Evander Leopold

-> There should not be any reservation stuff and all are at equal level. ( the guy has got to be suicidal to implement that thought )
.

Originally Posted by rupu1983

This is very easy to say that we are all equal but real fact is that Indian society is totally divided in cast still lots of person are victim of this whether in city or village lots person telling that we are equal because of their own interest and reservation is not new and unique in India all over the world(most of the part) this process has taken to create equal of each and every society and cast.

With the support of Manish 1st post

Originally Posted by Ruchika Akhtar

Very well stated, i totally agree with you .. by providing this type of Quota facility many deserving candidiates don't get admission in good colleges, govt jobs etc

Originally Posted by rupu1983

I never agree with Manish and this may be off topic and I have already posted lots reply on that topic so i don't want to post more after this

i want to say only one think that quota system is implemented because of
the participation of the every society in all sector of country and another think this method not a new and not a solitary thing of India.If anyone look at the world wide then like in games also this process is applying in entire world look at the World Cup football where if Asian quota is not applied by the FIFA then no Asian country would get chance in world cup most of the European country would play that games same case present for Olympic also.Now question is Japan, Korea (although they have wonderful infrastructure like Europe) they get the benefit of this reservation but still it's applied for participation of all sector it can inspire that community or area and which will eventually help the progress.
Finally may be the new quote will be introduce that 33% seat reservation for women in parliament( may be in 15th Loksabha) i also agree with that may be that mean we can loss few good male MP in parliament but it will open another area of the society may it will also inspire the women to participate in Indian politics.
[In last Lokshabha election(2004) only 45 women candidate elected(only 355 contestant) in total 543 seats that mean only 8.2% women MP present in Lokshabha]

Originally Posted by meetdilip

Yes, we should not cease giving reservations. But make sure they reach the right candidate. What is the creamy layer now? 3.5 LAKHS per annum?

I am amused to learn somebody who earns 30,000 per month is backward and needs some kind of boosting to come to main stream. Speaking the truth, "money is power", may you be forward, backward, christian, muslim sikh or anything, you have money, there are people who will help you.

We give reservations in education and jobs. An engineering seat at Tamilnadu or bangalore may cost max 1.5 lakhs these days. When you earn 3.5 lakhs, do you really need quota. When you have money, you got influential friends........jobs?

Please leave these slots to those who really need it. I hear people praise a lot about communists. But they were for this increase in creamy layer. Savior of poor????????

One party likes giving quotas to muslims, other opposes it. But nobody has problem with allotting them who earns 3.5 lakhs.

I know a lot of students who could have done better if somebody was ready to spend money on their fees. Make a rule. When somebody applies for quota, first give it to one with lesser income.

Be it saffron or other , why your PM candidate is mum about this? Give quota to muslims, backwards, forwards anyone you like. but make sure they deserves it. Come with a policy, that is how you help poor.

Finally after this post meetdilip started this thread

I am against any kind of reservation atall.... be it cast based or financial conditions or xyz.

The government should increase the number of educational institutions and provide interest free education loans which can be deducted from the persons income later on once he/she starts earning at source or otherwise if they are self employed... This cannot become a success if we dont have a system like they have a social security system in USA and the National insurance number in UK

Scams will come down and genuine people will benefit as everything will be stored in a central data base and when you go for a loan you give your personal identity number and everything comes up on the system and there is no running away.. Strict audits are the key.


Those people who talk of reservations have vested interests.. political or otherwise.

This reservation is screwing my nation in the back side on a daily basis.

Providing interest free loans or even with an interest which will be recovered once the student starts earning is the best way forward and there is no other way to solve this issue.. Even the most developed nations have this system in place and its running pretty smooth with may be a few drawbacks but then which system doesnt have drawbacks?

I also agree with admin there should be no reservations but
will the political parties agree that is a million dollar question .
Nobody will kill the cash cow.
padma

When it started, it was meant to stop after 50 years. At least it should go the needy than those already in main stream.

That is quite difficult to decide who is more in need as this is TII (This Is India)which had one of the most number of cases of favoritism.

One of my childhood friends belong to S.T.

Both of his parents are employed by State Bank Of India at Managerial posts. First, he studied at a discounted fee throughout his life. Next, he got reservation quota during admission in a reputed college, despite of scoring average marks in 12th boards. Then, he also got a job in allahabad bank. Now hez aiming for UPSC. Life has been so easy for him all the time. Normally, he sleeps for 12-13 hours a day.

Originally Posted by itsmemad

One of my childhood friends belong to S.T.

Both of his parents are employed by State Bank Of India at Managerial posts. First, he studied at a discounted fee throughout his life. Next, he got reservation quota during admission in a reputed college, despite of scoring average marks in 12th boards. Then, he also got a job in allahabad bank. Now hez aiming for UPSC. Life has been so easy for him all the time. Normally, he sleeps for 12-13 hours a day.

:32::52::taz:

On holidays he sleeps for 18 hours.

What the fish man, really, even if i were to be jobless, I don't think i'll be able to that !!

Originally Posted by itsmemad

One of my childhood friends belong to S.T.

Both of his parents are employed by State Bank Of India at Managerial posts. First, he studied at a discounted fee throughout his life. Next, he got reservation quota during admission in a reputed college, despite of scoring average marks in 12th boards. Then, he also got a job in allahabad bank. Now hez aiming for UPSC. Life has been so easy for him all the time. Normally, he sleeps for 12-13 hours a day.

I don't think personal experience can give any conclusion.Because I can give also another example where lower cast people is still facing discrimination in this society.So one example is not the ultimate.

well even i am ST by birth but till date i haven't taken any benefits offered by govt. I studied in KV but had to pay whatever others pay during my college days if i would have tried would have got easily anywhere outside north east but i studied in guwahati and then rather than joining public sector i am working for private sector while my own dad is an administrative officer in Arunachal. Thats how my parents brought me and my sis so you see its not that everybody avails the benefit there are some needy class who i saw and personally feel require it but thats doesnt mean that if anyone should misuse it.

Originally Posted by rupu1983

I don't think personal experience can give any conclusion.Because I can give also another example where lower cast people is still facing discrimination in this society.So one example is not the ultimate.

My point is that if the parents have already availed the Quota in their life for getting a Government Job, their child should not be given that benefit.

Wots your opinion on that?

when was in college, the funds allocated for SC/ST were misused by both the college and the government authority issuing them. but when some students did get the money, all i heard was them to spend it on party and drinks. (i'm only complaing about the way the system is implemented, no offence meant to anyone)

Originally Posted by Pri_dm

well even i am ST by birth but till date i haven't taken any benefits offered by govt. I studied in KV but had to pay whatever others pay during my college days if i would have tried would have got easily anywhere outside north east but i studied in guwahati and then rather than joining public sector i am working for private sector while my own dad is an administrative officer in Arunachal. Thats how my parents brought me and my sis so you see its not that everybody avails the benefit there are some needy class who i saw and personally feel require it but thats doesnt mean that if anyone should misuse it.

Hats off to you mam. You working in the private sector is the only example you needed to give that you never availed any benefits. I wish there are more like your family.

Originally Posted by newprouser

when was in college, the funds allocated for SC/ST were misused by both the college and the government authority issuing them. but when some students did get the money, all i heard was them to spend it on party and drinks. (i'm only complaing about the way the system is implemented, no offence meant to anyone)

you are right even i have seen that happening time and again.

Originally Posted by newprouser

when was in college, the funds allocated for SC/ST were misused by both the college and the government authority issuing them. but when some students did get the money, all i heard was them to spend it on party and drinks. (i'm only complaing about the way the system is implemented, no offence meant to anyone)

I also think that the quota situation in TN is worse as compared to rest of India.