Thread: No Burga In France: Sarkozy

I was watching one debate in NDTV channel regarding french president nicholas sarcozy statement about banning burqa in france, He stated that 'it is oppressive and submissive' to wear burqa and planning to make law.

That brings mixed reaction from all over the world, Some are supporting this thing and some are not including US president Barrack Obama.. You guys can also have different opinion, If you look closely then it won't seem bad as it's kind of step to give women more freedom, but putting this thing deliberatly on women doesn't seems to be good idea, It could back fire to sarcozy.

What's your take?

The third choice is not an option really. Because we know that 90% of the times, the men folk force the women to wear the burqa. Otherwise I would have voted for that option.

I do not know what the Muslim women think. Personally, it is not part of the Hindu mindeset; so I would not know.

Whether it will backfire on Sarkozy or not, I cannot say. My guess is that it won't and secularists will support him.

That's the point, why is it always that men force women to do cultural thing? In quran it is written that both men and women must not reveal their body, but why it is always women to follow this?

I won't differentiate burqa with Ghoonghat (Hindu culture), A traditional Ghoonghat could be of hip length. If any individual won't like to wear those stuff which so many women do (Benzir bhutto, prime minister of bangladesh, and some really famous muslim women, etc) then it's okay, and that didn't lessen their dignity, but forcing them to do something is not a good thing..

Originally Posted by just4kix

My guess is that it won't and secularists will support him.

I always seen, secularists means someone who is supporting the Muslims,
Noone is so powerless, innocent, politically and socially harrassed than these people. called muslims but thats a different issue...
going to the topic, i think Muslim clerics always support the "Increase population by any means" this means, the women will be definetly be held under Burqa(under the name of descency etc, c/o Sharriyat)so that the guys from other religion dont take them,(while they can)
swapping of women would be done (and was done) and noone will know,
use of burqa by the men of the community(specific guys) to do anti social things..

muslim women must get up now its too much, how many more centuries will they live like a hidden sexual organ???




Sarkozy did a better move, but actually he is not surrounded by muslim nations like we, nor he has any problems like muslim vote bank, nor the population of muslims anything more than 5-15% in any of the europian countries..
i think the debate started with fellow muslims, and will end with sardars's wearing turban and will end with the turban(which has no problem for anyone/nor any religion/culture)
cause muslims are innocent fellows with minority written on their forehead.

I was reading TOI, and that's what i found..

• Dutch government said no to burqa in public place, claiming it disturbs public order, citizens and safety.
  
• Italy too has banned face coverings by digging out laws to combat terrorism.
  
• In 2006, ex-UK foreign secy jack straw said that he was uncomfortable interacting with someone he was uncomfortable interacting with someone he couldn't see.
  
• Kemal Ataturk banned the burqa and headcarves in the 1920s in muslim-dominated turkey. In 2005, the european court of human rights said the ban was legitimate.
  
• France has banned all religious symbols, including muslim headscarves, jewish skullcaps and sikh turbans in schools.

It's not about muslim, hindu or any other religion, but question is why women has to suffer everytime, People say it's written in religious books but who wrote those books, All the books were written to satisfy men's comfort.

I too support sarkozy for this step, But implementing law is not good idea, If some women want to wear burqa let her do it, But most of the women don't want to live under burqa for the whole life, I guess the results could be long debate and fight between european country and muslim dominated country, And europeans won't care

Islam prohibits woman independence thats the straight answer,..

with their advent in India, now (from the middle ages) our own people started doing such customs like face covering (pallu dhakna etc)
i am just amazed to have a sneak pick, of those times, just think, when the warm Indians have met these looters from Arabia and Cynthia( old afganstan) how would have they done?? i mean, no respect for woman,. woman just for satisfaction increasing tribe population, marriages under the family tree, they call it under the name of Islam??
why are not hindus and christians doing this??
and how come woman like to use burqa (black cloth covering all body in deserts, sun )??
how can they like marrying their offsprings and persons they are related to??
i cant understand,,pls throw some light..



..take a read..




Take polygamy -- permitted under sharia as long as the man can treat his four wives equally. Where a woman can insist to a judge that her treatment will worsen when the husband takes a new wife, she can safely ward off any co-wives under sharia. But a woman needs her husband's permission to leave the house and talk to the judge, so it's easy to see how a man can easily get away with polygamy.



Source: Independent womens forum (why muslim woman lag behind woman of other communities in this modern world?? )

...............




even a well versed mullah cannot fight with me on the issues of woman's independence, corruption, religious blindness, cruelity for both humans/animals, hatred for non-muslims,


i have no mind to argue on such topics but one must come up for woman's independence...

.






anyone who feels my posts are incorrect give your points, i want healthy argument..

Lolz, Mickey your post isn't irrelevant, it's like muslim women's are suppressed more than other religion women, Hindu women in rural area put ghoonghat all the time, They are not suppose to talk to other than family, No work, No enjoyment apart from cooking and cleaning... most of the women suffers but it's muslim women who suffers most..

No offence but they(muslims) need to change their mentality, Try to bring girl forward, Don't know what sarkozy agenda is behind this but somehow he's doing good work...

Ghunghat was taken from Islamic culture cause Hindus felt insecure about their girls will fall pray to looters from west...

Ghunghat is not an Indian culture, you may go through books of medieval age of India. before the adventure of islam, woman was never suppressed in India...

Are maalik why do we need to go to medieval times? I'm not arguing with you, My point is womens are always suppressed by mens.. Be it muslim, hindu or whatever... All the awkward cultural stuff(Parda, Burqa, Ghoonghat, Sati, etc etc) is done by women's only...

P.S
fftopic:, what does "Poshyel k chyertu " mean?

Sati is abolished by hindus (still happens in many parts but have decreased) but purda, burqa, this is all the f done by these clerics to supress woman...

you are talking of hindu women being supressed but its only in rural areas and the things are changing very fast, but what about muslims??? when these frogs will see the world outside the dampy well they live in??

what is islam about??hatred cruelty and woman supression??no its meaning is one God, one Religion, but whats this???fakeism??

Originally Posted by gothic_coder

P.S
fftopic:, what does "Poshyel k chyertu " mean?

did you understand ??

...about your comment about ghunghat....

"Ghunghat ki aad mein dilbar ka, didaar adhoora rehta hai"

have you ever learnt?? Burque ki aad mein dibar kaa ...."
how it really feels inside that black cloth , can you ever imagine, life starting from 18 years(average age of muslim girls being married) till death and having so many children to work for.,.. she is an animal for reproduction?? they just don't one thing, thats eathing her flesh, otherwise they do everything exploiting her by ways....

what is Ghunghat?

-F

Originally Posted by mail2sc

Sati is abolished by hindus (still happens in many parts but have decreased) but purda, burqa, this is all the f done by these clerics to supress woman...

you are talking of hindu women being supressed but its only in rural areas and the things are changing very fast, but what about muslims??? when these frogs will see the world outside the dampy well they live in??

what is islam about??hatred cruelty and woman supression??no its meaning is one God, one Religion, but whats this???fakeism??



did you understand ??

...about your comment about ghunghat....

"Ghunghat ki aad mein dilbar ka, didaar adhoora rehta hai"

have you ever learnt?? Burque ki aad mein dibar kaa ...."
how it really feels inside that black cloth , can you ever imagine, life starting from 18 years(average age of muslim girls being married) till death and having so many children to work for.,.. she is an animal for reproduction?? they just don't one thing, thats eathing her flesh, otherwise they do everything exploiting her by ways....

Boss now you're comparing hindu women and muslim womens (Both suffered in rural areas and both live their lives freely if they are educated enough)...

Okay the discussion was about burqa and other stuff which women have to do, Whether they do frequently or rarely, But whenever they do it without their consent, Then it's the problem.. Pointing one's religion won't do any good, but showing them mirror that this could be right thing for you, or you can do that to be social in our society etc will be good idea.. Sarcozy could be thinking that by making law he could give women freedom, Thinking is good but action is not, and that's the main point bro..


P.S
I'm nor arguing, even i share same thinking that most women's are really suppressed in islam...

Originally Posted by farce

what is Ghunghat?

-F

Ghoonghat

They can ban it using in Schools, colleges and work in the name of uniform. But if someone prefers to wear anything while in public and it doesn't offend the public, it can stay. Europeans won't agree to make holiday on saturday than sunday. Similarly if some other community would like to continue their tradition by choice, it should not be censored.

France already have this rule (Banning burqa, turban, skullcap in school), See post 5... But hard rule against wearing burqa anywhere in france

Originally Posted by mail2sc

Islam prohibits woman independence thats the straight answer,..

with their advent in India, now (from the middle ages) our own people started doing such customs like face covering (pallu dhakna etc)
i am just amazed to have a sneak pick, of those times, just think, when the warm Indians have met these looters from Arabia and Cynthia( old afganstan) how would have they done?? i mean, no respect for woman,. woman just for satisfaction increasing tribe population, marriages under the family tree, they call it under the name of Islam??
why are not hindus and christians doing this??
and how come woman like to use burqa (black cloth covering all body in deserts, sun )??
how can they like marrying their offsprings and persons they are related to??
i cant understand,,pls throw some light..

Its Scythia not Cynthia

The problem is not Islam but some people who claim to follow it

My opinion is

A religion is only as good as its people .

Basically most countries with majority Muslims are all backward economically .... They still have feudal culture and so they mis interpret the Quaran and give the religion a bad name


Once i heard a talk ... and this was what was said

Quaran advocates Jihad .... It explicitly states that Jihad is a spiritual war against evil .... and yet u hear many Muslims talk about holy war against human beings/cultures/countries

Originally Posted by gothic_coder

Sarcozy could be thinking that by making law he could give women freedom, Thinking is good but action is not, and that's the main point bro..

Also take into account ........
Many women also think its a religious duty and would wear the veil happily .... they wont be happy about this ban

Basically i think we should leave it to personal choice .... Most women in Europe do not wear the veil

there are some who want to ... why stop them ?

Burga or Burqa??? (Not pointing out, just confused with the heading on first glance)

I think burkha, burka or burqua are correct!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burqa

Completely agree with shadow..

@ sujith... Thanks for pointing out, Will correct it

Originally Posted by just4kix

The third choice is not an option really. Because we know that 90% of the times, the men folk force the women to wear the burqa.

I partially agree with just4kix as I think also that most of women wear burqa forcefully but it not as such high(not 90%) may be just near about 70-75%.I think always it is not necessary to force the women to wear burqa.In few country men or even elder women always said to young girl that burqa is compulsory for muslim women and thats the way they develop one girls character.So i think at the present moment third option is best because at least govt. can give enough freedom for all type of person.

I always said that a women is a womens worst enemy. A generation of women who grew under a veil now want to decide what there children want to wear. Old timers and islam - perfect combination.

the same approach could be equally applicable to the sikhs wearing a turban and carrying a kripan (threatens security)
jains covering their mouths (identification issues - again threatens security)
hindu males keeping their upper body uncovered (obscenity)
hindu women wearing ghunghaat, sindoor, mangal sutra (discrimination)
hindu women wearing sankha (conch bangles - killing of endangered species)

and the list could go on on on............

Originally Posted by mail2sc

thanks for reminding...i forgot...

--------------eeeessshhhhh---------------------

woman in Islam is not more than animal..

they eat her virtually...if Quran have said "Thou can eat her flesh, and get place in heaven with 17 fairies" they would have tried that too...whatever is written in that old book, is done without using common sense...

Please keep your statements within the limits of them getting politically incorrect.
I am a very open to debates like you possibly want to start up here but not many people reading these pages would like it so shall we please keep it a bit decent and refrain from quoting stuff from Quraan or any other relegious book out of context?

I do not know what you write is true or not but things like these do not go down very well with those people who are very relegious.

Moral of the story : Keep it clean.

Originally Posted by panchabhut

hindu males keeping their upper body uncovered (obscenity)

Due to the hot weather in India Indian way of dressing evolved in such a way that people never wore anything on their upper half of the body .... i did nt know it had anything to do with religion ?

ever seen a temple priest with his upper body covered (even in winter)