Learning Java ~ What are the best choices of tools ?

I intend to learn java and I know programming with C++.

Please suggest me the following:

1. Book:

i'm currently using Java for Dummies, since i'm a complete newbie to java. Is it fine or is there any better.

2. Specialisation :
There are many versions of Java like SE,EE, Netbeans etc. Which one should I learn first ?

3. IDE

Is it good to use IDE or should I play with cmd ? If yes for IDE, which one is best ?

I see that there are Eclipse,Jcreator,Netbeans ,Jbuilder IDE, so confused.

Books

I have never heard of this book. It had got 1.5 of 5.0 rating in the amazon.
First decide what you want to do? If you want to become a programmer use books for programming. This book I don't think deal with that.You will have to appeared in the SCJP( Sun Certified Java Programmer) you can choose from:-

- Sun Certified Java Developer (SCJD)
- Sun Certified Web Component Developer (SCWCD)
- Sun Certified Business Component Developer (SCBCD)
- Sun Certified Developer For Java Web Services (SCDJWS)
- Sun Certified Mobile Application Developer (SCMAD)
- Sun Certified Enterprise Architect (SCEA)) .

Books for learning Java
Head First Java
Kathy Sierra & Bert Bates ( I am using this , this book is quite interesting & you will read it until you have finished it )

Effective Java
Joshua Bloch( I don't need to introduce this author, just search him)

If you want to seriously become a programmer & give SCJP :-


SCJP Sun Certified Programmer for Java 6 Study Guide : Kathy Sierra & Bert Bates( both of them were lead developer for the SCJP exam , there are books with same name but use Kathy one only. Most of SCJP qualified will swear by this book. But first you should use have some basic knowledge.)

A Programmer's Guide to Java SCJP Certification: A Comprehensive Primer by Khalid A. Mughal, Rolf W. Rasmussen ( This is second most extensive book use for SCJP ,you can read it first)

If you want to score good marks you should study from both books. I am using them both.

Specialisation

It depends on what you want to do. But first you will have to learn basics which you can by preparing &giving certification SCJP. You might see its price quite expensive but in India now you can can purchase it for less than Rs.5000( most probably for Rs.3000 , its cost fluctuate). It is valid for one year.

IDE

You should never use IDE when you are learning basics. It should be use when you have learn & want to study advanced. In fact , expert will tell you that you must choose an IDE then. But when you are learning basic you have to use cmd. You can choose IDE after you have learn much & advanced.


Why do you want to learn Java? For server applications , mobile applications or web development or any other use?

well I'm into learning the basics now, thats the idea as of now.

thanks for the detailed reply, added to your reputation points.

Thanks.

There are a lot of online resourses also to learn Java.

It's been a long time but I remember a book called
Java in a nutshell or something which I read.

-F

care to point out some good ones ?

Originally Posted by newprouser

care to point out some good ones ?

let me see, the Sun/Java website was also pretty good a few
years back when I was looking at Java.

-F

Originally Posted by newprouser

I intend to learn java and I know programming with C++.

Please suggest me the following:

1. Book:

i'm currently using Java for Dummies, since i'm a complete newbie to java. Is it fine or is there any better.

2. Specialisation :
There are many versions of Java like SE,EE, Netbeans etc. Which one should I learn first ?


PS: you can go through a lot of online tutorial offered by sun.

3. IDE



Is it good to use IDE or should I play with cmd ? If yes for IDE, which one is best ?

I see that there are Eclipse,Jcreator,Netbeans ,Jbuilder IDE, so confused.

Well if you want detailed description then go for "Head First Java".
Side by side go for "Java by Khalid Mughal". It's such a wonderful book. Easy language...covers everything.

Netbeans is an IDE FYI.

First cover core java because it's like base.

Experts say that don't go for any IDE, just use textpad. Well I personally like IDE but you must know how to compile and run your java program without using IDE.

You can use eclipse or netbeans since they are free and rich in features.

Hey can't we create a java forum here?

Sure we can ask a separate forum for programming, if enough people request/show interest.

> compiling java is jus goto dos, javac <filename> right, or there's more to it
(i've tried only untill that )

> about netbeans i tho its IDE as well some extention of java, now i gotit.

Basically an IDE, will compile separately in JAVA compiler and show the result in its window right ? what is the difference ?

Originally Posted by newprouser

Sure we can ask a separate forum for programming, if enough people request/show interest.

> compiling java is jus goto dos, javac <filename> right, or there's more to it
(i've tried only untill that )

> about netbeans i tho its IDE as well some extention of java, now i gotit.

Basically an IDE, will compile separately in JAVA compiler and show the result in its window right ? what is the difference ?

compiling one java file is easy. but when there are multiple java files in different packages and some of them use third part jar then it's not that easy.


Count me in for shouting for the creation of separate forum.
netbeans is an IDE developed by sun itself.

Lolz okie

When you use IDE, you don't have to write anything for compiling or running your application. They have their own console where you can see the output.

Actually when you configure IDE,say eclipse, you'll have to mention the path of the jdk.

Eclipse compiles your java file everytime you change it and save.

Originally Posted by nandini

compiling one java file is easy. but when there are multiple java files in different packages and some of them use third part jar then it's not that easy.


Count me in for shouting for the creation of separate forum.
netbeans is an IDE developed by sun itself.

hey do you know jars for mobiles??

ok thats what was trying to ask in the other post !

Originally Posted by mickey

hey do you know jars for mobiles??

what kind of jars?

jars are nothing but compressed java class files.

What an irony!!!

This thread is in Windows category and Java claims to be platform independent.

Originally Posted by nandini

what kind of jars?

jars are nothing but compressed java class files.

What an irony!!!

This thread is in Windows category and Java claims to be platform independent.

I too think we should have separate section for programming. I too find it funny that this is in windows as I am using FreeBSD & Ubuntu.

Does linux have inbuilt support for compling java like for C ?

Jars are archives much like zip files which can have any files. They are of two types :-
1. executables (theseare applications which can be open by clicking simply)
2. nonexecutables(they are simple archives much like zip)

Originally Posted by newprouser

Does linux have inbuilt support for compling java like for C ?

No you have to install jdk ( default is Open jdk) & jre. But some distro might give pre installed.

Originally Posted by newprouser

Does linux have inbuilt support for compling java like for C ?

what do you mean by inbuild support??

You have to have some kind of compiler for compiling.

I think he meant to say compiler pre-installed like gcc is in nearly all linux distros used in PC.
Java compiler is also preinstalled in many distros DVD.

i meant if they are included with OS, for eg : like MS debugger, dos etc

@ LS
gotit.

there're two things...
java compiler : responsible for compiling your java files.

jre : java runtime environment. It's responsile for running the java appliaction. These days almost all the operating system jre with OS itself. In windows you can check it's presence in control panel.

Somw linux distros DVD have compiler also. Fedora 9 DVD had.

JRE is well known , I try my best not to use Java appz.

Well the compiler doesn't require the runtime to run right ? It oly provides libraries in destination computer na.

Originally Posted by Luke Skywalker

Somw linux distros DVD have compiler also. Fedora 9 DVD had.

its time they added it to all Linux i guess.

Originally Posted by newprouser

JRE is well, I try my best not to use Java appz.

Well the compiler doesn't require the runtime to run right ? It oly provides libraries in destination computer na.



its time they added it to all Linux i guess.

But you will need JRE for running applications & there many runtime exceptions( which are divided into checked & unchecked) also. So JRE is a must also.

Oh i just thought its similar to VB runtime.

Originally Posted by newprouser

JRE is well known , I try my best not to use Java appz.

Well the compiler doesn't require the runtime to run right ? It oly provides libraries in destination computer na.

you've mixed things.

compiler's job is to convert .java files into .class files(byte codes). So JRE doesn't come into picture here.

JRE is required when you run a java application.
Suppose I write a java application and after compiling I mail that to you, so that you could run it on your system. So for running my application you need JRE and nothing else.

what i understand from this is,

you do coding and save it as *.java
after compiling , you get a *.class file

well then how are exe files produced under java. there are many software which depend on java but are actually in EXE format , eg limewire and so on.

Originally Posted by newprouser

what i understand from this is,

you do coding and save it as *.java
after compiling , you get a *.class file

well then how are exe files produced under java. there are many software which depend on java but are actually in EXE format , eg limewire and so on.

yes yes yes yes yes... you are right.

Now we come to .exe files.
Converting a java application into executable is like robbing it's souls. exe files are platform dependent while java application are platform independent. So when you do convert a java application into executable, it becomes platform dependent. (exe runs on windows only. right?? correct me if i m wrong.)

yes you are ...

unless you are on wine (some pun for ya)

Originally Posted by newprouser

Oh i just thought its similar to VB runtime.

It is different to it. JRE is a must. For we runs a bytecode not executables. You are right nandini, it is like robbing soul of java applications.

Originally Posted by newprouser

yes you are ...

unless you are on wine (some pun for ya)

yeah.

@npu

If you are just beginning with java ... Throughly go through "JAVA - Complete Reference by Herbert Schildt" ...

I will post in details later ...

Guys , whats your opinion on the book : Java : The Complete Reference by Herbert Schildt... Am currently using it and am finding it quite good. Any other book i should be looking at ?

Although I haven't gone through this book but I've heard that Herbert Schildt is a a good writer.

If you find that book good then it must be good indeed.

I like Java by Khaled Moughal. Nice book!!!

It is a very good book for JAVA beginners.

Originally Posted by saurav_k

@npu

If you are just beginning with java ... Throughly go through "JAVA - Complete Reference by Herbert Schildt" ...

I will post in details later ...

thanks , will look into that too

-----


btw setting this PATH thingy is confusing like hell, and javac is not running too if I do that. i still have to go bin directory and compile it myself.


and how to run the bytecode aka class file ?

i tried :

java asdf.class

and it didn't work.

Originally Posted by newprouser

thanks , will look into that too

-----


btw setting this PATH thingy is confusing like hell, and javac is not running too if I do that. i still have to go bin directory and compile it myself.


and how to run the bytecode aka class file ?

i tried :

java asdf.class

and it didn't work.

Did you set the CLASSPATH?

-F

I set the path to the bin folder using "path" command in DOS, if thats what you mean by classpath

No, CLASSPATH is another environment variable which points to the
directory where all your java class files and jar files are there.

-F

something like this:

C:\>env | grep CLASS
CLASSPATH=C:\XMLP562_WIN[1]\XMLP562_WIN\manual\lib\;C:\sample;

follow this...

make one System variable named JAVA_HOME
Set its value to the jdk home directory. like C:\Sun\SDK\jdk

now make one more system variable named path
set its value to the bin directory of your jdk. like C:\Sun\SDK\jdk\bin

you're done now.

Now open command prompt and type javac and hit enter.
If you get a list of help commands,bingo,you did it.
If not...bang your head thrice against the closest wall and repeat the pocedure till you get it right.

Originally Posted by nandini

follow this...

make one System variable named JAVA_HOME
Set it value to the jdk home directory. like C:\Sun\SDK\jdk

now make one more system variable named path
set it value to the bin folder of your jdk. like C:\Sun\SDK\jdk\bin

you're done now.

Now open command prompt and type javac and hit enter.
If you get a list of help commands,bingo,you did it.
If not...bang your head thrice against the closest wall and repeat the pocedure till you get it right.

Nice!
are you know all info about Java?

i learned it but i like C++ than java

Originally Posted by Swifty

Nice!
are you know all info about Java?

i learned it but i like C++ than java

These are the basic things. I am also new to java so know a little bit only.

If you like C++ then you'd love java as well,unless you don't look down upon the persons who're not system programmaers.

Originally Posted by nandini

These are the basic things. I am also new to java so know a little bit only.

If you like C++ then you'd love java as well,unless you don't look down upon the persons who're not system programmaers.

I learned Java As well as advance Java(n/w Programming not in details just overview) & etc.

@ NPU.Open notepad & type this:

set JAVA_HOME= C:\JDK1.6
set CLASSPATH=.;%JAVA_HOME%\lib
set path=%JAVA_HOME%\bin;%path%
start

Save it as a batch file i.e. with extension .bat like NPU.bat.
Note : I have assumed in underlined line that you have install jdk under C:\JDK1.6 name. If you have installed it under any name replaced it with it. You will get a command prompt after executing this file. You will have to use this file again & again when you want to compile. So save it a desktop. It will open in milliseconds.

This will solve your problem .
I have suggested this solution as it is much better to create a batch file as you might not have permission to change global variables everywhere you are expected to compile a program. So this method is better than changing the environment variables.
If there is any other problem pm me & I will reply here.

Originally Posted by nandini

These are the basic things. I am also new to java so know a little bit only.

If you like C++ then you'd love java as well,unless you don't look down upon the persons who're not system programmaers.

Learning C++ is complete wastage of time I too learned it. C is much better for use in system programming. Also Java & C are much better for embedded systems programming. You can do now anything with C which you can do with C++.

(C++) - (troubles) =(Java)

Originally Posted by newprouser

1. Book:

i'm currently using Java for Dummies, since i'm a complete newbie to java. Is it fine or is there any better.

There are a lot of online resources/source code available. I will suggest one book for you "Thinking in Java" as it is very much interesting while learning Java.

2. Specialisation :
There are many versions of Java like SE,EE, Netbeans etc. Which one should I learn first ?

SE is the standard edition (Core Java APT), used for writing any normal application like a desktop application.

EE is the enterprise edition - it is there in the standard jdk. This is the API for EJB (enterprise java beans) to be deployed in application server like jboss, websphere, weblogic, tomcat, classfish,etc.

Netbeans is an IDE from SUN (now opensource) not a java version.

3. IDE

Is it good to use IDE or should I play with cmd ? If yes for IDE, which one is best ?

I see that there are Eclipse,Jcreator,Netbeans ,Jbuilder IDE, so confused.

[/QUOTE]

For beginners I suggest using simple editors like editplus, notepad++, etc (suppoers sytax highlighing). Jcreator is good IDE and fast too compared to others. You can create, manage everything like debug, compile, create jars, etc. Eclipse, netbeans are having lot of features beyond the normal debug,compile, etc. (like mobile application,silverlight support, plugin,EE application and deploying to application server,remote debugging, etc,...) which as a beginner may not require.

I just started with notepad still I use kwrite as I am full time linux user (equivalent to notepad in windows) though one of the interface to our ERP is eclipse plugin interface. My colleagues use editplus, notepad++, jcreator, eclipse, netbeans.

The advantage of using IDE for beginers is they all provide pohelp for methods, member varibles. constants,etc, while using simple editors you have refer java documentation every time.

This post is nostalgic! Brought back my Java programming days (nothing special, just college days )

----

As for the new form on programming is concerned, count my vote in

@npu:
I think most people have suggested good enough books. Herbert Schildt is a good author, you can try that book (Java: Complete Reference)
As for online tutorials, Sun's website itself is comprehensive.

Good luck!

Originally Posted by farce

C:\>env | grep CLASS
CLASSPATH=C:\XMLP562_WIN[1]\XMLP562_WIN\manual\lib\;C:\sample;

sounds greek to me

Originally Posted by nandini

follow this...

make one System variable named JAVA_HOME
Set its value to the jdk home directory. like C:\Sun\SDK\jdk

now make one more system variable named path
set its value to the bin directory of your jdk. like C:\Sun\SDK\jdk\bin

you're done now.

Now open command prompt and type javac and hit enter.
If you get a list of help commands,bingo,you did it.
If not...bang your head thrice against the closest wall and repeat the pocedure till you get it right.

Ummmm, whats a system variable and how do i create one.

BTW i'm using XP.

Originally Posted by mithyavadini

I think most people have suggested good enough books. Herbert Schildt is a good author, you can try that book (Java: Complete Reference)
As for online tutorials, Sun's website itself is comprehensive.

Good luck!

thanks !!

@matrix

rep+

@luke

tried you method with no luck. posting screenshot.

Attachment 4951

go to computer->properties->advanced->Environmental Variable

There you can set system variable.

Wait for one day I am installing windows to solve this issue. Can't understand as path is showing bin in the path.

hey luke, sorry i forgot to update here, nandini's method is working fine. now both javac and java command are working from cmd.

thanks for your help.

meanwhile what is wrong in this code ?

public class MyFirstApp
{
public static void main ()
{
System.out.println("I rule ");
System.out.println("the world.");
}
}

Saved as MyFirstApp.java.

NO problems in compiling , but in execution i get this error.

F:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\Desktop>java MyFirstApp
Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoSuchMethodError: main

F:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\Desktop>java MyFirstApp.class
Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: MyFirstApp/class
Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: MyFirstApp.class
at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method)
at java.net.URLClassLoader.findClass(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)
at sun.misc.Launcher$AppClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClassInternal(Unknown Source)
Could not find the main class: MyFirstApp.class. Program will exit.

Write main statement as

public static void main (String[] args)

So program is:-

public class MyFirstApp
{
public static void main (String[] args )
{
System.out.println("I rule ");
System.out.println("the world.");
}
}




PS: Then I am not going to install windows.

thanks again, finally i got one program working